Sway bar for fiberglass dune buggy

[Turbopaul]

Is a sway bar necessary on my street legal buggy? I am having some interference problems with it and I would like to remove it if there won't be any downside to it. Thanks

[Dale M.]

You don't really "need" it, but I actually put heavy duty (3/4 inch) front and rear on mine and it handles like it's on rails.... Without sway bars about you will notice is a bit more lean and body roll when cornering....

Curious as to your interference issue....
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[slayer61]

What Dale said. 3/4 front and rear on mine too.
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[YDBD]

What Dale said. If you drive on winding roads often you will notice the difference or if you corner at high speeds. Off road not so much. Had to remove my 3/4" one when I put in a narrowed front beam.
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'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"

[EVfun]

I've never run one on my buggies. There isn't a lot of weight up front so the front suspension is plenty stiff. The big and little tires on buggies seems to reduce the need for one too. The Bug didn't even get a front sway bar until the 1960 model year. You can run without one and try it.
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[oprn]

As far as Beetles not getting a sway bar until 1960, remember that the highway speed limit in most places back then was for the most part 45 mph and most roads off of the main highways were dirt or gravel.

My glass street Buggy came with the stock front sway bar but when I put the new front beam in I haven't put it back on yet. The front beam with all the stock torsion bar leaves is already stiff enough on a light Buggy that there really is no discernable difference if the car is not pushed hard in the corners. Out here on the flat prairies with dead straight roads for miles and miles I can tell you there is no difference one way or the other.

However, I do plan to pull a few leaves to soften up the front end a bit and plan to put the front sway bar back on to keep from loosing that roll stiffness as the front gets softer.

I also plan to run the mountain passes again and I admit to being an aggressive driver in the corners and I love a flat cornering car.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[MrGoodtunes]

Ran into an interference issue with my front sway bar after using U-bolt type muffler clamps to hold structural steel for supporting my 68-73 front bumper. Solved it by cushioning sway bar to angle iron contact with a piece of soft rubber hose cut to fit and glued in place. Been running happily like this for decades on streets and highways.

[jsturtlebuggy]

If you having clearance problems with front bumper and stock sway bar, I have seen them mounted upside down to get the space needed.
The sway bar does stiffen the suspension and can make the ride feel harsher.
On my own buggy when it was built in 1970 by my Dad the sway bar was removed and never put back on since then.
And it been driven fast on many winding roads on pavement and dirt with not needing a sway bar.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[EVfun]

[oprn]

The main north/south highway in our province was 45 mph until 1965 when the 4 lane was built between Edmonton and Calgary. When it was opened the limit on it was indeed 65 mph later raised to 70 mph where it remains today. I well remember the old timers mumbling and grumbling about all the people that were going to die traveling at that ridiculous speed!
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[slayer61]

[GS guy]

[oprn]

Correct me if I am wrong here but the Z bar does not control camber apart from just augmenting the spring rate. You could get the same effect by putting heavier torsion bars in the car?

There were at one time a couple options to limit down travel on the swing axle that might be more effective. I assume that is what your "flop stop" is.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[EVfun]

[oprn]

Ah yes, so the Z bar is in effect just an overload spring. I thought so. In your case with no room for a Z bar, the rear torsion bars from a type 3 would give you exactly the same effect.

I used 944 rear torsion bars (same diameter as the type 3) and the 944 rear sway bar on my Buggy. It now corners incredibly flat but like you I have not yet pushed the limits to see if it understeers or oversteers as you approach that point. In milder turns it seems to be on the understeer side now. With the swing axle it wanted to oversteer when driving aggressively.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[EVfun]

[GS guy]

The effect of the Z-bar (when connected to the axles with pivoting drop links) is to make the swingaxles act like a solid axle as the car rolls. It is neutral to roll (unlike an anti-roll bar), instead trying to keep both axles in a straight line. This has the effect of keeping the rear tires (or trying to) perpendicular to the road as the chassis is in roll. Swingaxle roll center is at the center of the differential (so very high) and has a "natural" anti-roll effect, the front sway bar is the primary roll control.
As mentioned, the '68 Bug used the Z bar primarily as an overload/helper spring, I suppose to allow for softer rear torsion bars and better ride? Safety? Back then, I knew Zero about VW handling but I though the Bug looked cool! (Really needed a Select-a-drop in the front though!)

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70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS!

[oprn]

To be quite frank, a glass Buggy without a roll cage has enough torsional flex that I doubt either end could be rightly said to "control" the roll on it's own. The stock Beetle body is a different thing altogether.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[glassbuggy]

I had sway bars on my Rascal. It handled really well but that isn't always a good thing. When parked on an uneven surface the front tire would be off the ground. Once I spun it around due to loose gravel. Granted the buggy had not been softened via cut springs but I don't think I would use them on a buggy again. They are going on my Bug project for sure.