Bought a 1973 VW Thing, need some feedback! Please…

[cma68]

Quick post.

My eBay order for the Thing I purchased was cancelled yesterday for non-payment. eBay also stated, “Buyers who have multiple cancellations due to not paying for orders could face restrictions on their eBay account.To learn more, please review our Unpaid item policy”.

Of course I made payment via wire transfer from my bank to the dealers bank.

Just thought I would share with you all, the cherry on top of the cake.

Still waiting on information from the mechanic. I assume he is waiting on a new carb and distributor. No need to disturb him about it. I’ll likely only hear from him when it’s done. Or, if he finds a serious problem.

[77kafer]

[cma68]

I contacted the dealer via eBay messaging and they took the position that it was auto cancelled for non payment since payment was made outside of eBay. I tend to believe that is what happened. They will try to contact eBay to correct the status of the sale.

[cma68]

Latest update.

Mechanic will be providing me an estimate tomorrow.

I was informed by the mechanic shop that Vehicle will not go into gear when down shifting. Clutch pedal releases really high. Lots of oil leaks from engine.

So I think I will need to ask for either,

1) dealership pay for repairs necessary to make this car worth the $19750.00 I paid. Or,
2) dealership buys back the car for purchase price plus my expenses since taking possession. Tax, title, registration, tow, and mechanics fees.

I believe that’s reasonable. What do the members think?

[wbailey2112]

Time to move on. Cut your losses and learn from your experience. At his point you will never be happy with this Thing. Keep in mind though that these vehicles are now over 50 years old and none of them are going to be perfect.

If you should attempt to purchase another one you should do it in person and pay a local mechanic to check it over before you commit to the purchase.
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'74 Thing
'83 Westfalia

[oscarsnapkin]

[Olli from NJ]

cma68,

What have you decided to do?

[cma68]

[cma68]

OK, I accepted the dealerships offer to return the car for the purchase price, knowing I would be out a few thousand for mechanic work, shipping both ways, tax, title, license, tow etc..

The dealership went silent. I guess they figured I wouldn't accept their offer.

So I would be very wary of buying a vehicle from:

Dave and Sonny
Showdown Auto
32950 Utica
Fraser, MO 48026

All I can do now is move forward, make lemonade out of the orange lemon I purchased. My mechanic is still working on the issues but I should have the car back this coming week. The engine would require a complete teardown to fix all the excessive leaks. So, I will just bring oil wherever I go. Just until I can afford to replace the engine with a rebuilt one.

[cma68]

Well the situation just didn’t sit well with me. So I managed to speak with a representative from eBay. I was unhappy that eBay cancelled the order for nonpayment and wanted them to reverse the cancellation. Not only because I can get a strike for nonpayment, I wanted eBay to acknowledge that I did pay for the vehicle. Interestingly, eBay insisted that they did not initiate the cancellation, the seller did. The seller said it must have auto cancelled and they would get eBay to reverse the cancellation. Odd, wouldn’t you agree. After reviewing the messages between myself and the seller for which were sent via the eBay messaging system, the eBay rep acknowledged that I did indeed pay for the vehicle.

I was given the phone number to the eBay motor sales customer service to further explain my concerns. I was informed that they couldn’t reverse the cancellation, but could remove a strike if I received one. So I proceeded to explain to the rep that the seller, having initiated a cancellation for nonpayment, protected his feedback rating by prevented me from posting negative feedback on the sale. That seemed to resonate with the rep. He said he would file a report with the Trust and Safety Team. While the Trust and Safety Team would likely investigate, I would not likely be informed of the results. In addition, he said the Vehicle Protection Plan is only good for 45 days. It is now the 50th day. Also, there was no system to file a complaint against the seller. I thanked him for the information and we ended the call.

Then a few things occurred to me. 1st, I didn’t gain possession of the car until April 18th. That would place me well within the 45 days. 2nd, the eBay listing was a misrepresentation. The listing stated a 1600cc engine, while the engine is a 1500cc engine.

So I called back, now having the number. This rep was very helpful. He understood my concerns and directed me to the form to fill out for the Vehicle Protection Plan. He also stated that the 45 days isn’t always adhered to.

I now have acknowledgment from eBay that I did indeed purchase the car through eBay and access to the Vehicle Protection Plan. I should hear back in 24-48 hours.

The car itself should be back from the mechanic this week. I will post more later for whomever may still be following along.

[sportin-wood]

There's still some hope! Glad eBay isn't seeing this as one-sided, and is actually listening to your concerns. Keep us posted!
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1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
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"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[cma68]

I contacted the seller about the cancellation again. They responded.

—————

Sonny’s response;

“I can only speak to what is was told when I contact them. Here is the message they sent me when it was "automatically cancelled".
This order was canceled
Hi Sherwin,
The buyer didn't pay for this order, so it was automatically canceled based on your Seller preferences.
If the buyer left any feedback for this order, we'll remove it.
If you have any questions or concerns, just get in touch. We’re here to help.
Thanks for being a part of the eBay community.”

—————

So I agree that it is conceivable that the eBay offer was cancelled automatically, but based on the Sellers preference settings. The result is the same, I cannot post negative feedback for the transaction which was consummated.

I responded back to the seller and suggested that they change their seller preference regarding automatic cancellation of orders for nonpayment. It is not appropriate to prevent a buyer the protections afforded by eBay.

[lqqkatjon]

I sold a classic vehicle on ebay about 10 years ago and it went well.

a few years back, a friend wanted help listing his classic car on ebay. I read through the new terms and did some research and decided no way would I sell a car via ebay anymore.

ebay really does a good job of pushing all risk away from themselves. I think it is risky to buy something of that magnitude, and also risky to try to sell. lots of scammers.

[sportin-wood]

[cma68]

The ebay route was fruitless. They responded that due to the age of the vehicle, I have no claim via the Vehicle Protection Program even though the listing misrepresented the Vehicle's engine as a 1600.

They suggested that I post feedback. However, that is not possible since the purchase was cancelled due to nonpayment. But eBay did acknowledge that I paid for the car.

I am going to try and reverse the cancellation tonight. I have nothing to do for at least two hours tonight.

I know some of you may be saying move on, forget about it. Well, rest assured that I already came to terms with the fact that I paid far too much for far too little. Also, that I will have to put some more money into the car to turn this lemon into lemonade. But being able to post feedback would make the lemonade just a little sweeter.

I already contacted a local engine builder and he has secured a AM case from a 1973. Any 1600 case would have been ok, but he being able to locate the proper case for this Thing takes a little bit of the sting out. In the meantime, once the current mechanic finishes with the repairs he is doing, hopefully this week. I should be able to drive the car as is, provided I bring quarts of oil with me wherever I go.

[CanStan]

If your biggest gripe with this ordeal is the engine being a 1500 instead of a 1600, I’d really suggest once things are all fixed up and running, you drive it and see how you like that engine. I highly doubt you’re going to notice much (or any) difference spending the money to build a 1600.
If more power is important to you, it might be worth talking to your builder about going a lot bigger than that.

As long as the current engine runs well, I’d say to give it a chance.

[cma68]

[Schepp]

Too bad you had to learn the hard way. Under no circumstance would I ever buy a vehicle for that much money without checking it out in person. So much risk involved especially with a 50yr old car.

Time to start learning how to fix it yourself or it'll end up costing another $10k in parts and labor.

[Dusty1]

Hey CMA,

I just bought a VW from a Samba member 2000 miles away. Haven't seen it yet. It will need work when I get it. I sent the seller a check. He cashed it. No regrets so far...


The things that stick out for me are:

Why did you buy a Thing to begin with?

Seems to me you're not a Volkswagen enthusiast in general nor a Thing enthusiast in particular.


That "1500 H0 motor": It's unlikely it's a 1500 now even though it was a 1500 back in '67. It was probably rebuilt with 85.5mm cylinders and is now a 1600. Most 1500s became 1600s when they were rebuilt. You would be hard pressed to find 1500 cylinders, now.

Speaking of "hard pressed"... if you press your seller hard you may press him hard enough to take the heads off that "1500". If it has been rebuilt with 85.5mm cylinders (likely)... it's a 1600.


It may sound like someone is pullin' a fast one. The fast one as far as VWs go is most VW motors get bigger when they're rebuilt. They get bigger still every time they're sold. Bigger is faster, right?


If you wanted an all original "numbers match" vehicle you needed to check the numbers and make sure they match. An enthusiast would know that.

I can't imagine you becoming an enthusiast after what you perceive as a bad deal.

Next contra- indication:

"My mechanic doesn't work on VWs."

You're surely not going to become an enthusiast. You're going to feed your kraft durch freude to your mechanic(s) in large and small denomination legal tender. No freude for you.

"Due diligence" means it's on you to do the research, to know what you're buying, to personally check out the vehicle and run down your own personal checklist. You needed to do that to make sure you're not getting screwed according to your own standards.

Havin' said that I'm sure it's probably gonna come back to bite me sooner than later. I just jinxed my string of "no regrets" deals.

I'm not sayin' the seller is blameless. There area lotta greedy pricks out there. Greed is not a virtue.


I'm not worried about getting screwed even though I've run across more than a few scumbags in our "hobby".

I'm not worried about getting screwed because I don't overpay. Sure, I pay ten times more for some things (Things!) than I paid just a few years ago. I opportunity buy. I buy parts when I see opportunity. I buy vehicles when I see opportunity.

I'm not worried about getting screwed because no matter how bad the deal may seem I can usually set the vehicle straight. Me. I can fix it. I don't have to rely on the seller or third parties to set things straight. Again, you're not going to become an enthusiast without enthusiasm. My enthusiasm tends to dwindle pretty damn quick when the people I need to "help" me are passing my wallet around amongst themselves.


I'm still not clear on what you paid for your Thing. If you want to be made whole have your guy get your Thing running. Pass it on to an enthusiast. Sell it. It "displays" well.


My measure of a no regrets deal is when I can get out of it what I have into it.


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[pondoras box]

I’ve only done one EBay vehicle purchase. It was a late night low ball bid that I won. I was like well shit now I have to drive 4 hours each way to go get this thing. It was an 88 cabriolet.

I get there and I got lucky it was as described maybe even better. Ran and drove but needing a lot of work. It’s been about 6 years and I’m still trying to get it done. But I lucked out and have learned my lesson about late night bidding on eBay.

I hope your story works out for you. I wouldn’t stress about the engine size because most people look at a VW engine and figure all 1500 / 1600 style engines are all the same. Most shops feel new parts must be better than the old ones right. 9 times out of 10 it’s been my experience that the old stuff just needs cleaned and adjusted to work properly. But hey it’s shiny and new so ergo better so it’s worth more.

But if you ever find yourself looking at a foreign car from an EBay only dealer from Exeter PA he’s pretty straight forward seller. Can’t remember his name now.
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Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion
Plus a lot of other rusty junk