Why are these ball joints so stiff????

[Turbopaul]

I installed all new ball joints on my fiberglass buggy and now I can hardly turn the steering wheel. They are the the empi high clearance ones and I made sure they were lined up exactly when pressed in. To check I removed the tie rod ends to check just the steering and it is smooth and easy. I try to rotate the drum assembly back and forth with my hands and I can hardly move them. I hate to scrap these new ones but I need to get this fixed. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks

[slayer61]

They are quite tight when new. They will break in.
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[Turbopaul]

Yea but it feels like the steering wheel is going to twist off. It is that tight trying to turn. Is there something I can do to remedy this? Thanks

[Letterman7]

Did you pull the cups and grease them?

[Turbopaul]

No I did not, there was nothing that said they needed to be greased. If I remember correctly the cups had some grease in them. I realize they will be still bc being new but not like that. Do you think I need to disassemble front beam and press them back out to grease them? Btw there's no grease fittings in these. Thanks

[mightmanx]

I fought this problem for over a year. I purchased a rebuilt lowered front beam and once installed the suspension was very stiff and after sitting on the fender of my Manx it would not return to the height it was. I replaced the new ball joints with the same Empi joints that you spoke of and indexed them properly it was no better. I contacted and old friend who had a VW business for many years.
He had heard of this problem with newer ball joints. He recomended Febi/Bilstein ball joints. He had used those without any problems. I purchsed a set and out of the box I could move the stud any direction with some resistance unlike the other brands. The stud on other ball joints needed a small lenght of pipe to move them.
I installed them and after pressing them in I could still move the stud with the same resistance as before pressing them in. I put it all back together minus the sway bar since it is a Manx and not heavy like a VW. Now the suspension moves up and down as it should and the steering is similar to having power steering even with the 12 inch steering wheel that is in mine.

I hope this helps

[Turbopaul]

I installed these empi ones bc of my increased ride height from the tubes being twisted. I didn't want to bottom out the ball joints even though I do have limiting straps. The guy at dune buggy warehouse said they will be stiff but you need to drive the buggy to break them in. I don't like that idea and my buggy doesn't get driven very much.
I hate to spend the money on new ones and throw out the empi ones since they are new but if you say the other brand moves easily out of the box then that is what I need. And they move real easy out of the box????? Thanks

[GS guy]

I recall reading a post about clamping and spinning new stiff ball joints in a drill press for a bit to loosen them up. Maybe something to try after separating the joint from spindle with a drill motor?
Years ago I had "lowering" ball joints installed on an adjustable beam and within 100 miles one was found loose enough during an inspection to need replacing. Thinking tolerances on these is hit or miss.
Jeff
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70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS!

[Turbopaul]

Anyone else have any experience with the febi ball joints being loose out of the box? I have to ponder this over for a while. Thanks

[Turbopaul]

If I didn't already mention it's the rotation of the ball joints that is so difficult. I just grabbed the drum again to try to turn w/o tie rod connected and I could hardly rotate it.

[mightmanx]

I am not saying the new ball joints that were recomended to me are loose. There is no play at all in them. When they are pressed into the trailing arms they are able to be moved back and forth by hand unlike the others that I had tried. The Empi ball joints out of the box were very hard to move by hand and once pressed in it took a 12 inch piece of pipe to move them. In all my research I learned that many of the aftermarket ball joints are a problem and it appears that the tolerances are not what they use to be. Especially once they are pressed in. I did try spinning the stud to loosen it up but I didn't use those because of the heat it generated. They would get so hot you didn't want to touch them. I only had one out of four loosen up.

[Turbopaul]

After doing some further checking on the rotation of the tight ball joints I find that if I loosen the lock nut on the upper joint and then tap w a hammer on the joint the twisting becomes much easier and if I tighten the lock nut up again the joint becomes much more difficult to turn. I think then it is something to do with the eccentric nut? What do you think? Thanks

[mightmanx]

When you lossen the eccentric it becomes loose and the eccentric probably turns in the spindle. The eccentric is used to adjust the camber during the front end alignment process. Once the camber is set the nut on the ball joint is tightened to a certain torque and holds the alignment setting during driving.

[Turbopaul]

Yes you are correct but is what I am finding normal or are the eccentrics bad? Or is it still pointing to the ball joints pivots being overly tight? Thanks

[mightmanx]

i doubt the eccentrics are bad. I did the samethings you are trying before i replaced the ball joints on mine with the recomendation of a friend who had a VW business for 30 + years.

[Turbopaul]

Yur right, I could see the camber changing while I rotate the drum back forth. I guess I will just change the ball joints to your recommendation and hopefully be done with it.
Do you who would have the best price on the febi ball joints?

I also want to remove a torsion leaf in the front to try to soften it up a bit but that's another day. Thanks

[mightmanx]

I will PM you.

[mightmanx]

I will PM you

[Busstom]

This is a typical problem when the serrated cups of the ball joints are too large, and thus become an overly-tight force-fit into the pockets in the torsion arms. Not all ball joints have been created equal, there are other threads in the 58-67 forum (and 68-on as well) discussing this. I too have been a victim.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)

[Turbopaul]

Thanks guys, I have a set of the febi Bilstein on the way.