Front wheel bearing loose?

[ZsZ]

After refreshing front brakes (new TRW pads, TRW discs, FAG bearings) I have some problems setting the bearing preload.

The front right has quite lot of play even when I tighten the nut to where the thrust washer cannot be moved with a screwdriver. (Left side is fine set up by the book with an almost loose washer)

What did I miss?
Or the spindle is worn?
I remember that I had some problems before but I managed to remove the play but now the play comes back whatever I do.

THX!
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[jlrftype7]

Any chance you have the wrong bearing. People have posted on having early spindles on one side of the VW, and the later larger spindle on the other side, requiring different bearings to fit each spindle .
VW was apparently known for using up parts in production this way every once in awhile.
Anyway, remove the Right side and measure the bearing ID versus your Spindle OD and lets see what we have.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[DanHoug]

take the nut off, pull the disc assembly off, and screw the nut back on by itself on the stub. does it thread all the way forward?

next, examine your bearing numbers and make sure they are correct on that side. don't go by the numbers on the box, look at the bearing itself.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[ZsZ]

Thanks guys!

I will disassemble it and check the diameters. I will chime back in a few days.

The spindle was changed before as I had a bearing failure that damaged the surfaces. I remember checking the outer race to be the late diameter, but It was at least 15 years ago.

The grease in the disc was black on the outside bearing, so the problem might be present before just I did not notice.

To be sure I ordered an early outer bearing in a local store to have in hand if that is the problem.
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[crazyvwvanman]

I didn't see what year T3 you are working on.
As a quick check, if the vehicle came with the floating single piston caliper then the spindle would use the larger ID bearing of 84-92.
The smaller ID bearing only fit 80-84 and most 84 take the newer larger ID.
That is the common mix-up, someone installing the later larger ID outer bearing on an earlier spindle.

Mark

[ZsZ]

Sorry, it is a '86 van with late floating calipers.

It had late spindles originally for sure as the left side is fine with the new late bearings and I only swapped the right side spindle before.
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[ZsZ]

I disassembled and measured the right side. Spindle is not perfect, but seems not to be worn.

Inner bearing shaft size is 40.90 mm for the 41.00 mm bearing ID outer shaft size is 21.9 mm for the 22.02 bearing ID. Measured with my cheap digital caliper.

The washer measures flat and even around, but the nut grabs it first where the tab is.

I did tighten the nut fully to where I cannot turn the hub, loosened the nut and hand tightened it with a socket in hand. There the washer cannot be moved only by levering the screwdiver tip on the edge of the hub, but it has the same small play as the other side where the washer can be pushed with the screwdriver.

_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[Wildthings]

One way I have used to set the bearing is with the wheels on the ground shake the top of the wheel in and out and tighten the nut until the movement is nearly gone. I then drive the van with minimal use of the brakes to see how hot the bearings are getting. After ten miles or so they should be warm, but if either seems too hot, back the nut off a bit and drive ten more miles and test again.

[DanHoug]

spindle threads are really chowdered up. in addition to stripped threads i can see thread stretch too. no wonder the nut doesn't tighten! it'll be a delicate operation to get it started correctly but i'd run a die over those threads to clean them up. it WILL remove some precious material that you don't have a lot of to spare but it'll also allow you to thread the nut down more better.

one more thing... with the Mercedes nut, you can eliminate the washer and gain a few more good threads.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[1988M5]

That spindle is T-H-Rough, aka through. My only thought of saving it would be by mowing down the rest of the threads to about the same diameter as the, "full retard" section than running a die down it with a smaller diameter. New hardware would need to be sourced along with a custom washer. If it fails, it no big deal, you can street race your wheel that fell off. Don't touch the brakes!!

BK

PS the proper torque is after it settled in, snug it up so you can still move the washer behind the nut with some resistance using a flat head screwdriver. Can't move the washer? Too tight...loosy goosy? Needs more. (Preformed without the weight of the van on it)
_________________
1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs.

[do.dah]

[DanHoug]

[do.dah]

[crazyvwvanman]

IMHO the washer is also a safety device.
Look at the very deep key way groove in the spindle.
Look at the very stout key in the washer.
The key keeps the washer from spinning on the spindle.
If the washer could spin it could unscrew the axle nut and that would be bad.
The washer separates the turning parts from contacting the nut.
Of course the nut should be locked in place but things happen.

Mark

[ZsZ]

Thanks guys,
Unfortunately an M18x1 die is not a thing that I cran grab from my drawer, so that needs some time.
For SOS repar I am thinking about filing down the burr on the thread with some small precision file and replacing the washer with a new/good used one.

Do you know if the new aftermarket ones (possibly JPGroup) that are available are good enough?
That is what I can get quickly.
Or just search for an original?
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[ZsZ]

I have problems with the brake pads sticking so I disassembled and put together again.

Observed that the bad spindle has more play in 6-12 direction than 3-9 and the grease started to go black in the outer bearing.

The sticking pad is probably caused by the crumbled sound deadening lining of the pads
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[MarkWard]

You can make a die, by cutting a stock nut down one side. Run it on and off multiple times and it should straighten the usable threads.

I’d suggest looking out for a replacement. After all it does keep the brakes and wheel on the van. That the grease is already burnt, indicates something is not right.

Sorry, I don’t understand your last post regarding the brake pad. The brake disc could also have an issue holding the races square to each other than the spindle. It’s one thing to have a temporary backwoods repair, but it’s time to figure it out. The life you save might be someone else.

[ZsZ]

[MarkWard]

New flex hoses? They are the most common reason for dragging calipers. Pump the brakes till they are dragging with your foot off the pedal, crack open a bleeder. If the brakes free up, the hose is likely the culprit.

[ZsZ]

Still the old hoses. (They are around 14 yrs old, so needs changing soon) will check it, but I did not have problems with the old pads/discs
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008