looking for valve keeper recommendations

[michla]

Drag-only application here, I'm normally-aspirated, running around 380-400lbs nose pressure over the cam (steel billet setup, don't tell me all the alternatives out there and why I shouldn't etc) redline 8600RPM. I've succeeded with every part of the valvetrain to withstand the spring pressures needed except one--the valve keepers/collets/locks, whatever you want to call them.

They're not actually pulling through the old-school Berg-AR Chromeoly retainers made for Gene back in the day (bulletproof!), but the outside taper of the keepers gets worn from the stress/friction allowing them to sink further into the retainer over time until the retainer installed heights start to vary. I check it all the time before something bad happens so not to worry what I'm doing or not. I've been using Manley Racemasters with Berg triple groove keepers for decades and replacing keepers as needed during the season. Cost of racing or?

I know I can go to single-groove keepers and find more aftermarket or 10-degree retainers/keepers, but for now I'll live with what I've got.

Are there any racers out there that have a lead on stronger material triple-groove valve keepers? The aftermarket is pretty much the same: "hardened keepers" but I find the heat treat varies WIDELY...even with the same supplier or manufacturer! Thanks

[michla]

i just ordered some Scat 20092, gonna see how those work

[jim martin]

I haven’t run vw keepers for years now ,
What I remember is there is the issue of not a positive locking fit between keeper and retainer . Those were designed to allow valve rotation and I don’t think the 10deg single groove allows that . I need to really give my combo a good wack to separate where the old vw 3 groove not so much .
Also not sure what springs your running but I would check the pressures on them , if they are old replace them and shim to .050-.060” before coil bind at your lift And check them after say 10 passes . You might find this will stop the retainers from walking around and stops or lessons what you are finding .Hope that helps
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[michla]

[jim martin]

Don’t forget to check the springs . I would buy a new set and compare old and new pressures record new pressures and shim to .060 coil bind at your max lift .valve train will be more stable .
Post up your valve train specs . Springs , total lift at valve , installed height ,rocker roller or foot. Pushrod material and wall , lifter,lift at cam
_________________
B.C's fastest street legal vw , June 2006 Hot VW's feature car 9.81 sec at 145.26mph.
Sponsored by :
LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS http://www.lucasoil.com
KROC head porting services
Dialedinperformance.com
Airspeedparts.com topic http://airspeedparts.com/forums/index.php?topic=914.0

[michla]

right, the springs were new at the install the last couple races

[modok]

hmmm, food for thought
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_QOVzMTGD7o

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

I just did new valves and locks i've never found a brand that didn't need to be sanded down to get a tight fit. If you have burrs on the valve and it wont come out good chance the locks were sloppy. Guys blame it on other things could be harmonics or weak springs. But fit your locks its free blueprinting.
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Key is to have downward travel Preload keep both wheels on the ground at all times once you lift a tire your DONE. Guys worry about clearance instead think of the opposite you want the suspension to drop that tire in the hole and keep you going. A spider for example they keep their body low but their legs can reach pretty far so they don't (bottom out)

[jim martin]

this is some quick info , rotation 3 groove or positive lock single square or round.
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-discussing-valve-groove-styles-with-ferrea-racing-components/

if I was turning 8000+ rpm and drag racing I would switch to a positive lock set up.

my take on valve train is control, lets leave ti valves out.
sure its easy use tool steel lifters and ti retainers ,no brainer.
so what's left is pushrods and rockers and springs . choice would be roller tip or flat shoe ,aluminum or steel . lets make the smart move and go aluminum with roller tip .that leaves spring and pushrod , our engines are and can have extremely long pushrods , eg mine are 11.393" long.this is where power is lost .imagine you have pushrod flex think like a pole vaulter .that is a huge amount of lift lost over the complete opening and closing cycle result less breathing so loss of power , and if you do not have the valve train tracking 100% the camshaft your in big trouble .this can lead to a 10-15 hp loss easily.
again my advise and do what you want and im talking a race application as what the original topic was relating to is to first call PSI springs ,they will assist you with the correct spring required for your application and I guarantee they will tell you to shim it to coil bind , there are spring options.
once that is done then call MANTON pushrods , they also will assist and get you the correct pushrod for your application .

street don't care do whatever you want this is a race topic
_________________
B.C's fastest street legal vw , June 2006 Hot VW's feature car 9.81 sec at 145.26mph.
Sponsored by :
LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS http://www.lucasoil.com
KROC head porting services
Dialedinperformance.com
Airspeedparts.com topic http://airspeedparts.com/forums/index.php?topic=914.0