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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3519
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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Sounds like you NEED to drive on these link pins. Thus reassemble and use them. I have seen worse in use. You should also replace the Bushes too, and might as well give the king pins the full service also, make her drive like new.
But no danger I see in using that link pin for a short while longer.
Kind of a bummer you got to reassemble now, just to do it all again when the new parts arrive, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
Sounds like you NEED to drive on these link pins. Thus reassemble and use them. I have seen worse in use. You should also replace the Bushes too, and might as well give the king pins the full service also, make her drive like new.
But no danger I see in using that link pin for a short while longer.
Kind of a bummer you got to reassemble now, just to do it all again when the new parts arrive, but you gotta do what you gotta do. |
Good to know these need to be replaced as soon as possible, will get them ordered. I don't feel a bad thing to have to pull apart again, as I might need to adjust the torsion bar stiffness. Additionally, there will be no more rust and I will be using anti seize so be far easier getting the knuckle off.
What do you mean by bushings? As far as I can tell, link pins don't have bushings, only king pins.
Yes, my thinking is if the links are this worn and showed no play, the king pins also need replacing, especially if the passenger side remains stiff. Not only ride as new, ride even better than new as have Koni dampers sans steering damper (they don't make one). Even with a shot steering damper unbeknownst to me (good 2.000 miles ago), only in blustery weather at 60MPH was I getting mild wandering, no lane changing.
Another benefit is know all the pins are well looked after, as will not have to push fresh grease past the dry grease embedded into the pins as I regularly grease the front suspension.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1348
Location: South West (Pa.)
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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You should also replace the Bushes too, and might as well give the king pins the full service also, make her drive like new.
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[double quote]...
What do you mean by bushings? As far as I can tell, link pins don't have bushings, only king pins.
[/un-quote]
I'm no expert on this. In the last decade, having only done this whole job on 2 different '62 beetles. Never the less, the link pin bushings I replaced in both of these cars were just a matter of taking the old ones out & reinstalling the new ones without any reaming like with the king pins. Included photo for no reason
. another photo link...
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111498051GR |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6292
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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If you have it that far apart, and the link pins/ bushings are marginal just replace them. The parts are cheaper than the labor, so you don't save anything by reassembling with worn parts..
The link pin bushings can be pressed in and out with a bench vice and some sockets. Takes a bit to figure out the first time but the next one after it will be much easier.
SD
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Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3519
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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There is bushings. and the link bushes must be removed to allow the king pin bush to be replaced. Some are steel, but you can also get a bronze bush. My 356 has bronze, so maybe it is a 356 thing to use bronze for the link bush. My Bug has a metal that I assume is a sintered steel.
https://www.rogerbrayrestoration.com/shop/356-link-pin-kit-w-bronze-bush/
https://dunebuggywarehouse.com/products/stock-repl...ggy-german
I expect that given the wear on your link pin, that the bushes should be renewed also, and while you is at it, check the king pin and its bushes.
The next thing is the torsion arms, they ride in plastic bushes, check them for excessive wear.
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Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| thomas. wrote: |
| Quote: |
You should also replace the Bushes too, and might as well give the king pins the full service also, make her drive like new.
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[double quote]...
What do you mean by bushings? As far as I can tell, link pins don't have bushings, only king pins.
[/un-quote]
I'm no expert on this. In the last decade, having only done this whole job on 2 different '62 beetles. Never the less, the link pin bushings I replaced in both of these cars were just a matter of taking the old ones out & reinstalling the new ones without any reaming like with the king pins. Included photo for no reason
. another photo link...
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111498051GR |
Ah, I was thinking bronze bushings whereas they are steel and seized onto the upper links.
I forgot the king pins have to be reamed, sent a message to the only local VW shop, worse case, like all the other work I have done figure out how to do it myself.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| esde wrote: |
If you have it that far apart, and the link pins/ bushings are marginal just replace them. The parts are cheaper than the labor, so you don't save anything by reassembling with worn parts..
The link pin bushings can be pressed in and out with a bench vice and some sockets. Takes a bit to figure out the first time but the next one after it will be much easier.
SD |
I would love it if the time could be extended, sent a text to the property manager this morning, though seriously have my doubts (in part because has to go to the church board to be voted on).
As to labor, it is all mine. I get $600 in SSI so can't afford to pay $120 an hour for someone else to do the work. When I was 21, had a shop steal $560 from me, so did my own work for years until got stuck, said only be an hour so agreed, then was five hours. Lesson finally learned: vehicle repair shops can't be trusted unless there is a signed contract on agreed price. Fast forward over ten years, wanted camshaft bearings in the 1200cc case so sent to Brother's and they botched the align bore (which I added based on a false price). Only reason contacted the local place is because there is no guessing on price, the link is in hand and simply ream and install king pins, so if will only do an estimate, then I will do it myself mostly because demonstrates they have not done the job enough times to know how much to charge.
As to r and r of the link pins, I used a punch and a hammer, not knowing they were pressed. Do have access to a really nice vice, but crowded with totes; need to remember to ask if they can be moved.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6292
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
I forgot the king pins have to be reamed, sent a message to the only local VW shop, worse case, like all the other work I have done figure out how to do it myself. |
The tools and experience to do this job are considerably more than the cost to have it done, at least in my experience. There are a half dozen ways to much the job up, I have had to correct and reinstall bushings for other people several times in the last few years. FWIW, I charge $200 to install the king and link pin hardware, for people that bring me their cleaned spindles and the new hardware.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
There is bushings. and the link bushes must be removed to allow the king pin bush to be replaced. Some are steel, but you can also get a bronze bush. My 356 has bronze, so maybe it is a 356 thing to use bronze for the link bush. My Bug has a metal that I assume is a sintered steel.
https://www.rogerbrayrestoration.com/shop/356-link-pin-kit-w-bronze-bush/
https://dunebuggywarehouse.com/products/stock-repl...ggy-german
I expect that given the wear on your link pin, that the bushes should be renewed also, and while you is at it, check the king pin and its bushes.
The next thing is the torsion arms, they ride in plastic bushes, check them for excessive wear. |
Ah, they seized onto the upper link pins, plus, was thinking bronze which has less friction.
If do order, checking to see what cost it be to have a local shop at least ream and install king pins, will order both link pins and king pins if installing king pins myself. To me, makes no sense not to replace at the same time. Especially with a two hour drive up steep terrain possibly later in the year (unless someone else from our church is going early to the retreat).
I did not find any play in the torsion leaves so assumed the non metallic bushings were satisfactory. Additionally checked the torsion arm bearings and found no play, blueing, or corrosion.
If going to all this trouble, going to triple check and make sure not wearing out parts prematurely or have to spend a day blowing it all apart again (last time took two days because my tie rod press went missing in an emergency move, thankfully pastor found a huge ball peen in the tool coral).
I am even pulling the old tie rod boots off, cleaning out the old grease, putting in new, and replacing the tie rod boots. All are satisfactory so more environmentally sustainable refreshing what is still usable and adding fresh grease on a regular basis, which also allow for inspection (keep new ones on hand).
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| esde wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
I forgot the king pins have to be reamed, sent a message to the only local VW shop, worse case, like all the other work I have done figure out how to do it myself. |
The tools and experience to do this job are considerably more than the cost to have it done, at least in my experience. There are a half dozen ways to much the job up, I have had to correct and reinstall bushings for other people several times in the last few years. FWIW, I charge $200 to install the king and link pin hardware, for people that bring me their cleaned spindles and the new hardware. |
Fantastic help which is much appreciated! 
If this local shop doesn't pan out for some reason, either obtain an extension (more on that later) or find a set of links and send them to you. I sent main bearings to Colorado, we are blessed to live in this modern age.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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Heard back from the property manager, turns out the only resource she knows of is one of those places where can rent a lift, knowing full well it is closed.  Not angry, just find it odd as an INTJ the recommendation was based on insufficient data.
New plan is:
Monday install torsion bars and arms.
Finish assembling the engine and dress it.
Install the engine.
Wait until Tuesday noon for the local shop to respond, if not, order the parts and find someone else to install king pins.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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wdfifteen
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 696
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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This is a link pin bushing. They have thicker walls and are made of a gray alloy as opposed to the more common thin-walled brass bushings.
This is a worn link pin. I wouldn't hesitate to re-use this for a short drive. It's not going to break catastrophically, but it won't allow you to get and hold a decent wheel alignment.
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4814
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Link Pin Wear - When to Replace |
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| wdfifteen wrote: |
This is a link pin bushing. They have thicker walls and are made of a gray alloy as opposed to the more common thin-walled brass bushings.
This is a worn link pin. I wouldn't hesitate to re-use this for a short drive. It's not going to break catastrophically, but it won't allow you to get and hold a decent wheel alignment.
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Thank you!
Correct and permanent alignment is what let to even touching the suspension, so defiantly needs to be addressed, certainly before make a long drive.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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