Too Much Oil In Valve Cover after HOOVER MOD????

[jim martin]

This is the typical thing that seams to be quite normal on the samba , someone has a issue , makes a post , puts up some info then everything seams to get off topic or go down the wrong path . Has the issue been fixed if so post what you did to fix or let’s get some info up that is helpful.

(I seem to be having a problem with the 1&2 sparkplugs fouling and causing misfires on only the right side of my 1776.
After thoroughly checking out other possibilities, I believe the issue is caused by excessive oil in the valve cover as a result of potential "over zealousness" on my part while incorporating the HOOVER MOD )

Typical not enough info so what is happening to the 1&2 plug ,oil or carbon fouled ? And how do you assume it’s misfiring .Let’s see pictures of all the plugs and then list what you have done so far . I’d love to know how you have come to the fault of an oil modification? Tests to perform, let’s start with Compression and leakage numbers , ignition issue elimination steps performed , crankcase pressure testing . Fuel delivery ect ect. Every one hates to do the basics . How old is this engine , you get what I mean .
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[modok]

The reason this backfired is not any of that, it is because.....
Everyone making incorrect assumptions, seeing what is not there.

Am I?

BFB, please put me on your ignore list, and I will do the same.

OP
Although nobody thinks you have too much oil flow, it is possible.
If the oil flow is not being metered low enough with the lifters and pushrods, the rockers can meter the oil flow.
In the case of bob hoover, the vintage mazda valve adjusters were part of what was metering the oil flow. It worked at the time, but today it will not work with all combinations of factory style rockers and valve adjuster screws.
It is possible to have too much oil flow.
If each rocker flowed any more oil as full oil pressure on a 1mm hole, I'd say it could be too much for most uses.
The most simple solution for that, I'd say, might be to replace the grooved rocker shafts with stock ones. (no groove)

[BFB]

Nah, im not ignoring you. your first post stated you knew nothing about the Hoover mods yeh you still press your theological, pretentious assumptions. Just like the jet doctor, you posted what a piece of crap it is and come to find out you only ever installed one kit AND didnt even follow the manufacturer’s instructions, WHICH is probably why it didnt work.
I see a few of you lead people down paths they dont need to go only because they look up to you as “gurus” of the vw world and i think thats shitty and you need to be more thoughtful and honest about your actual experience and like i said before , im going to call you out on that shit.

And you’re wrong in telling OP “nobody thinks he has too much oil” , because i do. AGAIN, WTF? Matter of fact so far im the only one in this damn thread who’s had the same issue OP describes AND i even stated when i posted about it previously all you people just wanted to ignore the Hoover mods and blame this & that, just like yall are doing here.

Jim, while OP’s situation may vary from mine, i can tell you from mine that it absolutely was the lifter mod. Process of elimination… it was a blow through 2021cc single center carb, fresh build. If you pulled intake end castings you could see oil in the head ports. Could oil be from turbo? Possibly, so i disconnected it and ran N/A. Oil still there. Case wasnt vented to carb so couldnt be sucking oil mist through the carb. Case was well vented, normal oil breather & both valve covers all ran to an external breather can. So where else could the oil come from? Even if rings werent seated there not going to push that much oil up into an intake port. And id bet at this time the engine had several hundred miles on it.
So then when i added 1/2” NPT and 3/4” lines to drain the heads below the guides, the problem went away. If it walks like a duck and squawks like it duck , might just be a duck….
To add to that, ive done the Hoover mods to other engines , less the lifter mod, and had no issues. Again, quack quack

Not sure why some of you think that much oil could reverse flow into an intake port from rings but that the oil couldnt be sucked through a valve guide.. oh, also there was no oil in the exhaust ports, probably because exhaust port sees pressure vs the intake port having vacuum. I believe id found this logic on a different forum that wasnt vw and that specific engine had this issue , non related to Hoover mods. So it does happen .
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An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
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[modok]

no, that's not what i said.
And I'm sorry in advance for......being honest at the cost of, well....lets see
Most people understand what I say, and some don't, but maybe those that do can help fill in whatever is missing.

BFB, you have poor reading comprehension skills.
I see you commented the last time we discussed the topic in 2019, here.
here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=60
If you could read carefully, then you would have seen on page four, that Racerdave does not cut three large slots in the lifter, and neither does Torben, and neither do I. Racerdave cuts one slot of a specific size in the lifter as Berg advised. Torben seems to have forgot entirely that the "hoover mod" involves grooves in the lifter, and I said what I said then, and I was probably smarter then than I am now.

But I do remember when I read bob hoover's blog 20 years ago, I could clearly see the difference between -what he did- and -what he thought-, which btw, is the key to science. Thoughts and facts are two different things.

Hoover cut large grooves in the lifter to prove a point, and the point was.... that the lifter was not the restriction in the system.
The actual restriction in HIS system, after increasing the oil supply to the lifters, was using ford/mazda valve adjuster screws, and the clearances. He probably did not know what size of passages were inside those adjuster screws, and he probably did NOT even notice the oil hole in the adjuster screw wasn't even aligned with the oil passage in the rocker, and he probably did not know what the clearances were, which....... is just, what it is to be human. Anybody was free to figure out those details at the time if they had wanted to, and they didn't.
Now it's decades later, and few of us would even use those parts, even if you could still buy them.

IF you read the directions and it didn't work, then
It is OUR FAULT?

Or it is your fault for not understanding the instructions?

because, if you had CORRECTLY followed the procedures any of us advised or did, (me or Hoover or Torben or David) then it would have worked just fine.

If it didn't work for you, then you did something different, and YOU will have to figure out what you did different.
We can't hold your hand to figure it out.

if the whole idea of this was to trick me into making us all look like idiots, then you have achieved your goal, congrats, or you are a just lucky, but in either case, BFB you do this act ONE MORE TIME in such RUDE way, then you will be on my ignore list, for real, and it will just have to be what it is.
Actually, you already are, but when I still see one of your posts is always below mine, I had to look. I just read the first post and replied, that's all, I had not intended to reply to your post, but by luck, to you, it seemed like I did probably.
You can't change history, but you sure can understand it wrong, or pretend to. Seeing things that aren't there. Not understanding the context.

[Alstrup]

Tip of the day.

Wrt the slots in the lifters.
I have been studying the oil amount in the valve covers . Due to that I have revised the slots, so I now make 2 slots in the 1/2 side and 1 slot in the 3/4 side, AS WELL as making the feed hole in the case elipse shaped using a 4 mm bur.
I am using a 1 mm blade on a mini angle grinder.
EDITED
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[modok]

so Torben NOW cuts a specific number of slots, of undefined size, in the lifters somehow, and he forgot which side of the engine is which?

Well, whatever, I must be losing my dam mind

[Alstrup]

Youre right. I realized my error 5 minutes later. Fixed now
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[modok]

I see, thank you
(removes revolver from mouth, returning it to carefully back to desk drawer)

[esde]

FWIW.
My own experience, messing around with the 2 liter in my 60 ragtop
Full hoover mods, and I have 4 of the pushrods drilled with a .5mm hole to spray oil on the valve springs, an idea I lifted from vince1
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=80
I've run the engine with w the valve covers off of both sides, and above 2k it puts a LOT of oil in the heads. There are no issues with oil in the intake..
It did take several tries to get a suitable breather system figured out so oil drained from the heads to the sump.

There are so many variables, besides just having the hoover mods
-oil weight, pump size, bearing clearances, lifter bore fit, relief pump springs, full flow system hardware; these all affect the overall oil pressure. The hoover mods were (in my interpretation) an attempt to improve oil flow to what is the end of the line of a marginal oil system. If the rest of the oil system has tight bearing clearances and lifter bores, maybe you could have to much oil flow to the heads. Maybe pump size and oil weight are a factor? Maybe it's the rocker shaft grooves? Those are variables and things we have to research or problem solve..
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[Brian_e]

Yet another variable to throw into the mix is Bob was doing most of his testing and mods for his use in airplanes. Those engines sit at a decent load at 2000rpm for hours. Our engines vary rpm constantly, and they cruise at almost double his rpm.

I still believe the smallest passages in the whole system are the pushrod tips.

Brian
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[WaterBuggy_24]

Interesting thread. I want to learn more about this "hoover mod".
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One day, I may learn.
Probably not today though.

[bedlamite]

[scrivyscriv]

[jason]

If you have worn intake guides the vacuum will suck oil into the intake. If you vent below the valves it wont anymore.

[slalombuggy]

Now I remember why I only come on here every couple of weeks. What a shit show