Extended arms. Steering help

[516swg]

Hi all. I'm putting together a new front link pin beam for a cute little buggy. The old one was very bent. So. I picked up a new beam, and got the 2.5x1 extended arms from Appletree, along with the thru bolt kit.

The question is: what has been done for steering? I'll surely need longer arms, yes? And. I saw on here a while back about a equal length setup, where the drivers side arm was tied into the passenger side arm.

Any input would be great. Thank you

[jsturtlebuggy]

You are going to need some kind of center mount rack&pinion steering box with equal length tie rods and depending on what spindles you plan on using maybe different tie rod ends or heim joints. And a mount for the rack&pinion to attach to beam.
with longer trailing arms depending on how buggy is built you may need to mount beam further forward for tire clearance to body or chassis.
Cute little buggy is not much of a description to go on when asking for what will work.
Pictures always help.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[516swg]

Well... that sure was helpful!

[BFB]

The answers you get reflect a lot on the info you give …
I saw this post the other day and skipped over replying because it was to vague.
What DOES your cute little buggy look like?
Is it on a vw floor pan or is it tube?
What kind of beam did you get?
If your running though rods then assume your going coilover?
How much travel do you want?
How much money do you want to spend?
How good are your fab skills?
Where do you plan to drive it, street, sand, woods?

Theres so many variables iits hard to answer your original question and i think jsturtlebuggy offered best he could, not much more / better could be offered and i bet lot of other ppl skipped over like i did.
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[ORANGECRUSHer]

[516swg]

It's yellow. Does that help?? I stated it's a link pin beam and stated the arms I'm using. Yeah. Sorry pal. The dudes who linger on every forum and give vague answers that do nothing for the thread are beyond useless.

K cupcake. Other than knowing what type of beam, and the arms being used... what other info would be relevant?? You're damn right I searched. And searched. And found something a year ago. But when I tried again, I didn't find much, so, cupcake, I asked this forum, which is what it's for. Lol. I guess you fall into the useless category of responders who say "use the search button". I did pal.

You're a big benefit to this forum.

[516swg]

**** half the responses that I did find searching this topic are just as relevant as the help you provided.

Don't believe me try it. You'll see post after post of people on forums who provide responses but not a damn thing beneficial.

And!!! We just created a new dead end search for anyone following behind us!! Let's Go Champ!!!

[jsturtlebuggy]

Well 516swg first thing you need to do is learn correct names for suspension parts. A steering arm is part of a spindle that a tie rod end or heim joint attaches to. Between two tie rod ends is what is called a tie rod. The tie rod with the tie rod ends connect between steering arm to the steering box.
Hopefully your new beam has either 8 or 10in shock tower and can support the coilover shocks you going to need.
And the steering box you going to need is a rack & pinion.
If you don't have the knowledge to comprehend all this or the technical or mechanical skills to actually do the work, it would wise to farm the work out.
Have fun with your cute yellow buggy and stop being a cry baby when you give very little information or any pictures for someone to try and help.
Have you ever read a book? Prepping Baja Bugs and Buggies can be very helpful to a novice.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Schepp]

Ok now kids… oh wait I’m probably younger than both of you.
Let there be links!
Have you see the Gonzo team’s build? They have a couple different cars with some good pictures of their setups. Even a power steering system on one of them!

http://gonzoracing.net/construction/Baja%20Bug%20U...on%203.htm

Here on page 3 of their Baja they’re setting up the front end with a steering rack. Maybe this is the route you want to go?

Explore their team site and read what they have to say.
A lot of good information.

I’ve started looking into a rack setup. Im not sure of their reliability and longevity for daily street use?
What you don’t want is a 1:1 turn ratio. You do want larger steering ratio. Like 1.5:1
I’d go with the Kartek unit over some Chinese brand.
They tell you what size heims to use.

Check out what Kartek offers for steering.

https://www.kartek.com/parts/kartek-offroad-151-ra...beams.html

If you’re going to use the car on the street, you don’t what it to have quick steering. You want more spins of the steering wheel and less input. The ratio refers to how quick the response is from the steering wheel.
You’ll likely have to build your own tie rods with heim joints as gonzo did.
Because it’s a universal part.

Hopefully this helps steer you in the right direction. See what I did there.

In the future please do post pics of your car so we can help out more efficiently.
We’re not familiar with what every site sells.
So saying the Appletree parts means nothing to us.

OrangeCrusher has a valid reason for getting upset.
It gets irritating posting the same advice all the damn time. It often seems like most people arent willing to try a dig for the info. But a lot of times people aren’t familiar enough with the VW industry to know the common outlets.

Have you heard of RaceDezert? That forum has a lot of great articles and amazing builds. The VW community on that forum is big too.

When you start looking at the professional builds, it can inspire you to do something similar.

[BFB]

Well, OP after your little bitch mc meltdown looks like you’ll get more answers. Aside from jsturtlebuggy’s well thought responses lets go back to original post and address a couple of your dumb ass questions …

[Schepp]

BFB also knows his shit.
Once you move beyond stock suspension components it’s a snowball effect. If you don’t have the fabrication skills to perform major modifications to the chassis. I’d stick with stock parts.
Converting to a steering rack setup is not a bolt on job. It’s modifying the entire steering system. Buying longer suspension arms is the easy part. Modifying everything else in order to make the new suspension work is the hard part.
What about the gas tank? If you put something else in that hole in the trunk where does the gas tank go now?

The steering rod setup that you speak of that connects both spindles together is a “drag link”. Often found on jeeps or basically anything else with a solid front axle. They don’t have a place typically on independent suspension.
On independent suspension the tie-rods need to also be able to move independently of the other side.

This cute buggy you speak of. Is it the green Manx in your album?

People who are unfamiliar with the VW platform often buy parts without thinking about the big picture.

When planning out the front suspension, you need to think of it as a complete package. You can’t build it in sections and expect it to work. It all needs to be modified as a whole system.

[cbeck]

You want answers? We got em. But, you attract more bee's with sugar than you do with shit. People that cop an attitude tend to be ignored.
_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[BFB]

"drag link", thank you! for the life of me I couldn't think of the term for that set up the other day
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[raygreenwood]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

I'm pretty sure the entitled millennial is off pouting to his uninterested parents about how the mean old men didn't tell him he was the best and give him all the answers he demanded.

This behavior is getting pretty common lately. I see it all the time on Tacoma groups I think maybe because it's a vehicle a lot of young men without a lot of money can afford. You challenge in the slightest and it's a big blow out. They hurl a bunch of mean insults while they explain how hurtful and inhumane you are and that you should just shut up and go away because nobody likes you and that whole rig-a-ma-role.

Sorry kids, but I'm starting to enjoy triggering your tantrums and it's so satisfying to watch you melt down. Bring on the next one. I'm ready. Try to hurt me with your honed psychological insults. I'm a Gen-Xer. We've dealt with bigger problems than you. And we also learned some respect in the process.

Apologies to all the millennials who actually got raised correctly. You're appreciated. Or maybe I got my generation wrong. Who cares. I'm too old to.
_________________
Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes

[Schepp]

At least we created another post with some good informative content for the next guy who searches.

[Wulfthang]

Well! That was interesting! I have come to two conclusions after reading thru this entire post and evaluating it.

First, the OP asked a vague question and then got offended because he didn't get the answers he wanted. I had an instructors many years ago who had a lot of "sayings". One of them was "Define the problem. (or question) You can't fix it if you don't know what's wrong with it and you won't get the correct answers if you don't ask the correct question". The OP should have refined his questions instead of getting PO'd.

Second, this Board is tough on rookies!!! Most of us know what a spark plug or a distributor point cam or a Thermogulating Discombobulator is but not everybody does. Remember your old days? It can be tough for a rookie walking into a roomful of total strangers who are all experts on everything and asking a question and wondering if you used the right words or sounded stupid. His initial post was respectful but vague because he is inexperienced. His second post showed his lack of patience and inexperience. He went downhill from there and blew it.

Maybe we all need to back up, slow down and be more patient with those not Blessed with the knowledge like us experts. If no new members will dare to enter this domain for fear of getting beat up on, this Board will go away.

[BFB]

I hear what your saying, but on the other hand none of the car guys when I started sugar coated anything nor held your hand. matter of fact most were the complete opposite and were assholes. I had several guys just sit and watch me screw up & fail and it made me better.
theres no better way to learn that screwing up and no one will get over the fear of trying & failure if their hand is held and things done for them. we used push the new people and test them to make sure they were reliable and that when someone is under a heavy part that new guy isn't a pansy and going to drop it on someone because his wittle finger hurts.
aside from all that it also teaches you your place in things and to respect the time & knowledge the older guys have.
I see it as a right of passage, if you can't take someone correcting you, busting your balls, and testing your metal, then maybe you should find an environment that has a safe space and let real men do the work real men do.
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[Schepp]

Take no prisoners! Take no shit!

I offered help and links despite the attitude.

When I was building my engine my mentor watched me put the distributor drive gear down the hole 180* off. I finished the engine and he said nothing. upon first start it wouldn't fire. I struggled with that thing for damn near 3hrs before he stepped in and told me I'm an idiot.

[ORANGECRUSHer]

I completely agree with all three of you. But BFD has my point.

I'm not going to give someone special treatment especially when they did nothing to deserve it. You can't walk into a group of people needing help, start punching people and then blame everyone for not being helpful. Sounds more like a Monty Python skit than reality.
_________________
Brian H.

OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes