DR good, AFM good, no love at pump. *cwies!

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Hello Beetle Gods! Long time reader, first time question-asker, so sorry if I'm not doing this right.

'78 Super Beetle, all stock. I have the Bentley manual and I've done my homework, but I'm lost and ready to cry. No power at pump. Double relay tests perfect. AFM tests good. Flap held open a touch, pump comes on. Flap held open a touch with pump on, car won't run. She coughs and runs for a few seconds with some starter fluid, but then dies.

I'm gonna take a gas can to the station and add some fuel because she's low, and it's possible a previous owner misrouted the fuel lines or maybe her gauge is a bit off. Normally she runs great.

I changed over her fuel pump and filter because I had spares anyway, and she DUMPED gas, so no blockage there. Battery connected directly to pump has it spinning nice and sweet, but no start. Read my wiring diagram and figured out how to bridge double relay, but still no start. Again, maybe too low on fuel and gauge a little off. She shows about an eighth of a tank, not counting the reserve. Given that she barfed like a Freshman when I pulled the pump, I'm pretty sure she has enough in the tank, but I'll feed her in case it helps.

I recently filed her points, gapped 'em, and slapped her dizzy back in there and noticed her condenser had a nice patina of light rust, but I haven't tested it. Does the dizzy give a signal through the coil or something that tells the pump to stay on when running, and to shut down when not? I thought the AFM does that with its swingy plate. I can pull the dizzy and check the points again, replace that condenser, and test my coil, but I'm chasing my tail and now I'M dizzy.

This was my Dad's car and he's gone now, and driving his Beetle makes it feel like he's close by. I'm sorry again if I'm not doing this right and God knows I hate asking for help, but this time I really need it. I can't ask him for help and I'm too young to have the experience to figure this one out on my own. It's just me, some basic tools, a manual that I've been reading like a chapter book, and a gorgeous four-wheeled convertible paperweight. Hopefully I have this wonderful VW community as well.

Also, I'll try to figure out how to post a picture of Dad's Beetle as my picture. Other priorities first. Please let me know if more info is needed.

[VW_Jimbo]

Welcome!

You will need to get a picture up of the engine. I can ask all of the questions, but typing them all is a pain in the ass.

1st. Injectors do not fire if the white wire from the ECU is not connected to the #1 side of the coil (same side as the condenser). And I am betting this is your issue, since you wrote you replaced the condenser.

Check for that white, maybe even grayish colored wire and post a picture. Or come back and say. I found the wire, connected it and now it runs!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Hi Jimbo, thank you so much for replying!

Condenser is old, not replaced. I might do that soon. I'll check all connections at coil in the morning; it's late now.

Engine was running fine on highway, but a little low on power, pulled into town and idle was low. Oil light came on, brake light came on, sounded like engine was dying. Pulled over, killed engine, chatted with a friend on phone for a while, turned key but cranky-cranky and no start. Called USAA and read a book until tow came for us.

I'll dip the connectors to the coil in Brass-o to shiny them up nice, then put 'em back on.

No idea why the fuel pump isn't working though. =/

[busdaddy]

Welcome!
If this "Brass-o" you speak of is the same polishing compound I know it's not going to improve any electrical contact, you need De-ox-it for that.

I'm curious what you discover if you remove the S-boot (the ribbed rubber part between the AFM and throttle body), hold it up to the sunshine and flex it, any cracks?, any of the hoses attached to it falling out?
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[Molly HasaBeetle]

Okay, I feel really weird writing this, but thanks Busdaddy... It's just the name; I'm not used to calling ANYone daddy, outside of a few VERY specific circumstances. =P

On to business. I let the Brass-o sit for a few hours, maybe overnight, then scrub the connections clean with alcohol and an old toothbrush, use a stiff wire to woggle around in there, then use electrical contact cleaner spray shooting one way and then the other all through there. Brass connections come out bright and pretty. =D

I'll pull the S-boot later today while I clean and check those coil connections. That's a good idea, and I hadn't thought of that, given my Beetle's problem happened all at once.

Thank you Daddy... Okay, I'll be good now. *lmao

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Here's the engine bay photo you wanted Jimbo. I included pics of the iggy coil wires. I cleaned the plug on the white wire and moved it to a different blade, also cleaned. Still no start. All I can think of is old fuel and gauge wrong, so she isn't drinking any. Pump and filter are both brand new, but I'm not hearing any Beetle tummy gurgles when I jumper her double relay and force the pump on. I'm about to scream.

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Also Busdaddy, no cracks in the S-boot, but there are some small cracks on the outside of the hose leading from the oil filler to the S-boot. I'll replace that eventually, but I don't think that's the problem because she was running great, right up until she wasn't. If the problem turns out to be a bad gauge and not enough fuel in the tank due to a misrouted fuel line, everyone might want to cover their ears because my scream of rage will be heard from coast to coast. On the other hand, I'm learning a lot... =/

[VW_Jimbo]

Let’s take a step back.
Do you have spark?
If yes, if you squirt some carb cleaner into the snorkel, will the car sputter?
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Hi Jimbo. Yes on spark. Car runs on starter fluid.

[busdaddy]

[VW_Jimbo]

[Molly HasaBeetle]

I have no noid light, just a test light and a good multimeter. I can check if Autozone has one. Pretty sure there's no fuel pressure; I can see if they have a gauge as well. I'll grab a gas can today and feed her some fresh fuel, but if the lines were misrouted, why did she barf when I replaced the pump and filter? Barfing means she had fuel.

All connections at the battery look good. There's a small brown wire leading off the big thick cable that goes to the negative side of the battery, and it's connected fine. I don't know why it's there; seems like that connection should have been part of the thick cable. Alternator connections look fine.

[VW_Jimbo]

You did see Busdaddys picture - right? Verifying the orientation would be great.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Hi Jimbo. Thank you very much. Yes, I saw Busdaddy's excellent pic. Very helpful and much appreciated. Is there a way to verify the fuel pump running to the feed line without pulling the tank? Can I check through the passenger wheel well or somewhere easy to get to, by chance? I am, as should be blatantly obvious to everyone by now, not a mechanic, but I'm doing my best. =}

[busdaddy]

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Thanks for the advise Busdaddy. I take it from your reply that there's no easy way to check other than lifting the tank, aside from feeding her a healthy breakfast. I did that today and she's sitting at two-thirds of a tank now, but no change. Autoone will rent me a fuel pressure gauge and a noid light, so I'll look up how to use those.

I'm also going to order her a new crankcase breather hose; the one she has is cracked all over the outside. I remember from a past roadtrip that she won't run if the oil cap is too loose or off, and if the hose gave out, then it stands to reason she won't run with it in that condition. Maybe of all things, it's the hose.

I'll also try to get up the gumption to drop her fuel pump and take pictures of which fuel hoses are connected where, as well as the wires. I'm almost completely positive I did all that right, but at this point I'm grasping at straws.

This site is truly awesome. Both you and Jimbo have been nothing but kind. Thank you so much for the help you've already given.

[VW_Jimbo]

If you have not purchased a manual yet, I HIGHLY recommend this one! It has everything a new VW wrenching owner requires, besides tools and skill!

The fuel pressure test is in there along with several other tests.

https://a.co/d/0PxYs0b
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[airschooled]

Wait, have you confirmed the new fuel pump buzzes with some kind of test? The presence of fuel in the lines to/from the pump do not mean the pump is working.

If I was a gambling man, which I am not, I would put money on a failed fuel pump originally, and that you may have the new one wired backwards. They buzz a treat when hooked up wrong, but won't pump anything anywhere. That's the the fuel pressure test is for. Stock spade terminals are easy to mix up, they're the same size and every undercarriage wire is brown after almost fifty years… Red/blue is positive, brown is negative… On aftermarket pumps with threaded ring terminal connections, the larger terminal is negative and the smaller terminal positive, but both included ring terminal adapters usually fit both posts… Ahh the joys of the Amazon era… (The noid light will flash in this case.)

If the noid light doesn't flash when cranking, you'll be checking for 12v at several double relay pins, since convertibles LOVE to dump rainwater into the ECU/double relay area. You'll also be checking the white FI ground wires threaded into the alternator somewhere. At some point, you'll need to check the resistance of the left side cylinder head temperature sensor, often called TS2. It's a single black wire sensor on the engine, plugged into a white wire in the engine wiring harness. Do you have a volt/ohmmeter?

Robbie
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[Molly HasaBeetle]

Hi Jimbo, I have that manual already, along with several others. Great idea! =)

Hiya Airschooled, thanks for the assist. I have the fuel pump hooked up the same way as the old one, and they are both Bosch. The red wire is connected to the thinner of the two posts, marked as Positive, the other wire to the other post, and the pump buzzes when I apply power. I've performed the tests on the double relay and the AFM and they both passed. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.

I'll get the fuel pressure gauge and the noid light soon, but I'll wait until the guy who tried to help me today isn't working. He was a creep and wouldn't take no for an answer. I suspected he was an idiot right away, but he confirmed it when he told me the car wasn't starting because I was probably using the wrong octane fuel. =/

[Molly HasaBeetle]

Also, I have a nice multimeter.

Now I find myself wondering if it might be the ignition switch or the AFM after all. AFM passed the tests, but someone else has been in there and globbed RTV around the cover when they were done.

I'm wondering because since I've had the car, the pump comes on and stays on when the key is turned. Engine off, pump on. Now there's no pump noise with key turned. I know the pump isn't supposed to be on with the engine off, but it was on before she broke down and now it's not. Ignition switch? AFM because someone's already mucked about in there?

Just to add to the questions, she has a hot-start relay under the seat. I replaced the relay itself just to be sure, but I'm pretty certain a signal from the starter kicks that pump on, and yet the double relay passed with flying colors. Anyone else wanna scream yet, or is it just me?

Under the rear seat, there's an ancient metal relay on the driver's side. Dunno what it does, dunno why it's there, but if it still works, I'd be shocked. The more I try to fix, the more questions I uncover. This really sucks.