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MsTaboo 
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4546
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
...Bulldoze and clear cut of land is oft how solar power plants are set up. I see much of that in our once pristine desert lands, harming habitat, killing endangered animals and plants in mass.
An oil well is usually a very small foot print, a solar power plant is huge, and we will need a whole lot of them to go electric for transportation, in addition to huge copper mines, smelters, rare earth mines and processing to support electrification. So called green energy is hardly green. It is however environmentally destructive, expensive, and unreliable. |
You're kidding right? Solar farms or wind are bad but not oil/coal?
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rl...PEP-p3BmA4
(my 13 year old computer is a bit slow at downloading images, so you can look through some of the above on your own)
There are about 1100 square miles of solar farms. The Permian oil field alone is 86,000 square miles (and there are many, many more) all crisscrossed by roads and pipelines. Include in this also oil well gas flaring which is so bad it can be seen from space.
https://geology.com/articles/oil-fields-from-space/
"...green energy is hardly green. It is however environmentally destructive, expensive, and unreliable"
Everything we do is gonna have an impact in some form, the idea is to think long term. You want to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Saying we need revenue from oil and gas extraction (actually the US gets very small royalties, unchanged since 1920 and mining has remained unchanged since 1872. Look up the numbers) but somehow not counting those from "green" sources.
Another loophole for the extraction industry is the cost to taxpayers to clean up the mess left behind.
| zerotofifty wrote: |
Many who do care about " natural heritage" are fine with a sale of public lands. By stated what you stated, you imply the people on the side other than yours does not care, and that is simply not true.
I went out of my way to include people from from both sides of the political divide who oppose this bill, I'm sorry I was unable to find advocates for the mandated sales who "care" about keeping public lands public
Furthermore this is not a "give away" to oil and gas industries, Saying so is an outright lie. This is a sale. furthermore those industries help keep your camper van on the road. And those industries do pay a lot in taxes, some of which does go to roads and the parks that you may drive on, and camp in. You're mixing up different parts of the bill
Furthermore this is not a " massive sale" (nor give away) as this sale is a very tiny fraction of government owned land (the government does not own the land, the people do) , it is a tiny sale. I'm glad you think a million plus acres is "tiny" |
I'm trying not to be snarky, but you make it hard. These are complex issues that often get buried under misinformation by those in pursuit of money.
The main point here is that as of now the Mike Lee proposal to mandate sales of public land is struck out of the bill. Since bringing attention to that part of the bill was the whole premise of this thread it is now a dead issue. End.
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The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3733
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
| You stated that people dont care about natural heritage, that is different than what you wrote in red about caring about keeping public lands public. |
And the oil and gas industry does provide a heck of a lot of taxes, not to mention our modern life style and all the blessings that come from such products
This issue is not complex, but some folks are full of misinformation by those who have refused to pursue reason.
As for money, the nation's debt is near 100,000 dollars per person, we need to sell resources to help pay that off.
I never said anything about solar farms being bad but not oil or gas extraction. Both have an impact. But you have gone on about complaining about gas and oil extraction, but not the exploration of resources required for so called green energy.
And the land in question is government owned land.
Learn to control your snark, dont blame me for your inability to control it.
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3733
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| MsTaboo wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| MsTaboo wrote: |
did not fool the people who care about our natural heritage.
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but it's cool to drive an 40 year old oil leaking vehicle into such places, so better preserve the heritage |
Oh give me a break! So it's ok to clear cut, bulldoze, and build, but not drive to these lands? If you spent half a minute reading the opposition to this travesty you'll see that most of the pushback is from the people who live in the west (Connecticut-is that a state or a county?).
And besides, my Bostig/Zetec doesn't leak! 
| Glenn wrote: |
But electric cars don't pollute, so ive been told. |
Another classic example of not understanding point source and how concentrating power production allows pollution remediation at scale. |
Well, if we can transmit electric power over long distances, we can put the oil and coal plants in 3rd world countries. |
The mining of resources to produce electric car motors and batteries is oft outsourced to third world minority nations, with lack of pollution, and worker safety laws. Out of sight, out of mind is the green energy motto. I guess it is ok to pollute those places so some can pretend to care.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79428
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| so some can pretend to care. |
Most people pretend to care. They think the constitution begins with...
Me the People...
Nobody really cares unless it directly touches them.
Everyone wants more jails, just not in their neighborhood.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23777
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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Well , I’m getting a huge tax break and a loophole to pass through income with out tax. The rest of America just taxed your children another 3T in debt to give me that.
Thank you, Orange States.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79428
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| Abscate wrote: |
The rest of America just taxed your children another 3T in debt to give me that.
Thank you, Orange States. |
Like most Americans... building up debt they can't pay.
But then what are the debt holders gonna do... break America's legs?
So much for fiscal conservatives, they're all out for themselves and special interests.
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Glenn
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3733
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
The rest of America just taxed your children another 3T in debt to give me that.
Thank you, Orange States. |
Like most Americans... building up debt they can't pay.
But then what are the debt holders gonna do... break America's legs?
So much for fiscal conservatives, they're all out for themselves and special interests. |
The fiscal conservatives are not in power. The spenders are. But thank goodness the socialists are not, they are worse than what we got now. 
Had land been sold, resources extracted, that would have been a move in the correct direction money wise
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79428
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| The fiscal conservatives are not in power. The spenders are. |
Wait... don't the Republicans control the White House, and both the House and Senate?
What happened to the party of Regan?
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Glenn
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3733
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| The fiscal conservatives are not in power. The spenders are. |
Wait... don't the Republicans control the White House, and both the House and Senate?
What happened to the party of Regan? |
Well at least the full on commies or socialists are not in power. The debt needs to be eliminated, as debt spending is in effect taxation without representation for our grandkids. 100,000 dollar debt for every American, and growing.
It is a mess.
We need to restart producing in America to pay off this debt. bring manufacturing back, open up land for resource uses. Otherwise we is screwed.
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Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 650
Location: germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| The fiscal conservatives are not in power. The spenders are. |
Wait... don't the Republicans control the White House, and both the House and Senate?
What happened to the party of Regan? |
Well at least the full on commies or socialists are not in power. The debt needs to be eliminated, as debt spending is in effect taxation without representation for our grandkids. 100,000 dollar debt for every American, and growing.
It is a mess.
We need to restart producing in America to pay off this debt. bring manufacturing back, open up land for resource uses. Otherwise we is screwed. |
Sorry for my comment. I´m viewing and regarding your topic far from distance. Please don´t take my comment too serious! Maybe we, you should ask, who has more power in the, your financial system, the government, or the Fed, who or what is the Fed and acting for which interests.
Imo any bank likes credits and a high level of pay tax to earn money while sleeping. Not so the government imo. Who owns America? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79428
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| Well at least the full on commies or socialists are not in power. |
The Republicans are voting to increase the debt by $3,500,000,000
That's a lot of zeros.
It seems like the oligarchs are running the country.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 650
Location: germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| Well at least the full on commies or socialists are not in power. |
The Republicans are voting to increase the debt by $3,500,000,000
That's a lot of zeros.
It seems like the oligarchs are running the country. |
I believe, you are probably right. Capitalism in it´s final stage. For me it seems, not only in America.
We can think back some years, around 1789-1799, French revolution and compare. |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
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Location: Phoenix 602
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