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72 autostick: no start, no crank
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redeyedtreefr0g
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 10:20 am    Post subject: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

Just sharing current events and asking questions to learn while I wait for a new starter to get mailed between stores so I can have it ...

Marmalade, when we aren't being dumb, had always fired up strong and fast when turning the key... When the key works. After the local man got the car running, we have starting issues still. Sometimes all the key does is make dash lights change!

We had multiple issues at once and have dealt with most of them...

I was stupid and vacuumed carpet after driving the car up for a bath. This meant I messed with the shifter to get the carpet pulled out and beat. I know, dumb. Anyway after this the car wouldn't start.

We discovered no gap in the distributor and I learned about the breaker point assembly and setting the gap. We ran out of gas in the tank.

We have now fixed the fuel problems including leaking gas tank drain plug, old fuel lines that finally gave out under recent stresses. I moved the electric fuel pump out of the engine compartment entirely so now it and the filter are now outside the spare tire well under the front. There is a check valve in the engine compartment in the front right corner, but otherwise a seamless path to the carburetor now.

The shifter contact was in the process of breaking so sometimes the start issue was the car not actually in neutral. The fasten seatbelt light (where is that on the wiring diagrams??) really helps with determining what gear we're trying to start in.
Now I've rebuilt the shifter wire. I started the car easily in the shop with my new point gap and fuel improvements, and was testing for gears. I had reverse and low easily but I stupidly quit to run away from the yellow fly swarms, thinking it would be easy to adjust the plate for first and second the next morning. Now Marmalade won't start! I believe based on the dash lights that it is in neutral...?

12.6v at the battery
12.59v at the battery with key on.
0.03v at the ignition-to-T2 or left side of the connection headed to the E17 starter cutout switch.
12.39v at that wire with the key in the START position. Is that enough?

I have not tested the wire multiple times to see if the voltage is intermittent yet, which would mean my ignition switch is bad.

I have not hooked up the battery charger again yet.

I have not tried to bypass the starter cutoff switch. If the shifter is in the neutral position and the dash lights corroborate that, this means I have neutral, right? Or, if the engine wasn't running is it possible for the transmission not to have actually been put in neutral since there was no vacuum, and this is my entire issue? I did crawl under to look at it once. The connection seems to be nice and secure and I plugged it back in.

I have not tried to short the starter directly. It's tight up under there and I had a black widow drop on down recently when I went looking. It should be clear now, though. I've only short-started my big school bus before and there was lots of room. Can someone point out where exactly I jump terminals?
If my transmission is not in neutral and I do this, what happens? I feel it should be fine since being in a gear is how you pop start a car with a dead battery, yeah?

Anyways, front suspension is done so starting and shifting is the only hold-up for Marmalade now. Am I on the right track? Am I missing something?
I'm so irritated with slow shipping...
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Orange Bug "Marmalade" a 1972 Super Beetle, autostick
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

When was the last time you cleaned the contact areas on your transmission ground strap to body? It's on the nose of the trany. that completes the electrical path from the starter back to the battery.
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redeyedtreefr0g
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

I cleaned it all up just now!

With the new starter Marmalade cranked up almost fine, there was a little hesitation which I think might be fuel related.

Then I noticed the brake light solid on flickery in the dash, and the generator light was oninside the gauge. Ichecked the engine real quick and the belt looked very wobbly so I quickly shut it down.

It's not good working with ADHD people... I discovered that the generator hold down strap was loose. Also the brown ground wire screw was barely in. I fixed those.

Tried cranking again, but after a couple turns it becomes weak.
I have the battery on a charger now.

I kind of would expect the brake light to be on since I just had a line off last night doing the passenger side suspension... but I also know that the headlight switch was loose in its shell, and if it had rotated, the wires are close enough it could have been touching the brake light wires...
I took it back out, it appears there is a contact plate which would be important to the switch functioning. The shell corners designed to hold it together are weak, one broke off. I zip tied it snuggly. I put it back in the dash and made sure it isn't touching the brake light.

I'll try and start again later and see if the cranking weakness is fixed, and if it is if lights are also fixed or not...
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redeyedtreefr0g
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

The generator fixes solved the error light issue, mostly.
Charged battery had the car cranking just fine every time with the new starter. We DO have to figure out carburetor adjustments. It wants to die without a tiny bit of help right after starting and the idle is too low on its own. When the engine runs that low the generator and brake light want to glow slightly.

So far it seems like I had a bad starter!
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

When you start a cold motor feel the pre-heat pipe under the intake manifold, it should get too hot to touch after a few minutes, if it's ice cold your pre-heat pipe is clogged with carbon and the motor will never run right as the gas vapor will liquify stalling the motor. Another check is with the motor off remove the air cleaner and look down the carb. throat and slowly open the throttle, you should see a stream of gas squirt down the throat AS SOON as you start to move the throttle, if not adjust the accelerator pump linkage located on the side of the carb.
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redeyedtreefr0g
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: 72 autostick: no start, no crank Reply with quote

My engine still needs the air ducts for both sides of the tin and the preheat, but I can check that. Thanks!
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