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Vanagon is now Vanagone
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TopBud
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Bummer that happened. It happened to me - same thing- I was super bummed out. On the other hand it was the best thing because I put in a Bostig conversion and it has been trouble free. YOu can look for a good used 2.1 as mentioned above or do a conversion. Good Luck
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ThinkingD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

wesitarz wrote:
$7500 CAN all in? That is reasonable. 115hp?





I though so, he has done well over 100 of these conversions, mine has had zero issues to date.
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ThinkingD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

ThinkingD wrote:
wesitarz wrote:
$7500 CAN all in? That is reasonable. 115hp?





I though so, he has done well over 100 of these conversions, mine has had zero issues to date.


Yes 115hp, a nice reasonable bump.
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MayorMcCheese
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Last time I looked 1.9l studs were hard to come by and the rods that are being sold by the normal vendors had 2.1l studs in them.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

MayorMcCheese wrote:
Last time I looked 1.9l studs were hard to come by and the rods that are being sold by the normal vendors had 2.1l studs in them.


Just tighten the 2.1L bolts to the 1.9L specs.
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Alleycat1990
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone update Reply with quote

My mechanic in Ottawa found a core. It is currently being rebuilt and will be reinstalled in July. No I did not over rev the engine and the oil had been done about a week before. I also installed one of the GlowShift Oil Filter Sandwich Adapter and I am using the recommended oil from Vanagain and a Mann filter. I bought everything from Vanagain. I spoke to the second last owner and he had changed the oil before selling to the last owner. She put almost no miles on it because of health issues roughly 200 miles. But I changed the oil anyways. Yes Mike Condolli did the rebuild. In 2020 it was sent out for the machine shop aspect of the build. I put 20 W50 oil in it because that is what was recommended by Vanagain.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Just tighten the 2.1L bolts to the 1.9L specs.


I think that is a dangerous recommendation. The metallurgy of the TTY fasteners is different from standard bolts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Alleycat1990 wrote:
I was driving down a main road in Ottawa today and my 2.1 imploded.


What motor oil were you using?


First of all, whirly-bits departing the engine-block qualifies as “exploded”, not imploded.

Clarification of the ^wisdom above^

What weight oil were you using?
Needing heavier oil, and free-flowing Mann filters etc, to keep the oil light from winking….
…suggests that the rod bolts have stretched and may break soon.

I had that problem back in 1999.
I tried to fix it with thicker oil. I was going to try adding an oil cooler next. After having to rent a Uhaul&trailer to get home (500 miles) I installed a Subaru EJ22.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
Just tighten the 2.1L bolts to the 1.9L specs.

I think that is a dangerous recommendation. The metallurgy of the TTY fasteners is different from standard bolts.


Agreed, but its been tested awhile now.
Has this method beeworking in real life?

What are the 1.9 .vs. 2.1 torque values?
Are the rod bolt diameters same?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

The clamping force that matters is when the engine is at normal operating temperature and that will be different for bolts with different metallurgy that have been torqued to the same spec. I have dealt with many TTY bolts on different engines, and this is the only forum I have seen the recommendation to torque TTY bolts to a spec for standard bolts.

How many people have torqued the TTY bolts to the 1.9 spec and gotten more than the typical 150,000ish miles on the engine afterward. I haven't seen any firsthand accounts, and I'd want to see MANY before I would trust it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Yeah anecdotal data is just that.

Heres the technical mumbo jumbo.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque-to-yield_fastener

I would expect TTY bolts that are NOT Torqued To Yield to simply deliver the preload of that torque spec, like every other bolt does, without the longer term benefits of TTY design.

I do wonder why someone would decide to not TTY a TTY bolt,
when used in a high-cycle situation like a connecting rod.

Does anyone know a link where 10c explains his reasoning?
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

If you can't find a vendor who sells rebuilt con rods with new fasteners, then the best option is to install ARP rod bolts. That might require spot-facing the bolt head and nut seat areas as the ARP bolts might have larger bolt heads. If your machine shop does the spot-facing for you, make sure to ask them to radius the outer edge on the spot-facing cutter to avoid creating a stress-riser. This will leave a nice radius on the con rod where the spot-facing is done. All of this also assumes that the con rod is being rebuilt.

I used this process on stock Type 1 con rods along with polishing the beam and magnaflux checking in a 7,500 rpm Beetle drag racing engine with no failures. Why? My teenager summer wages were not enough to buy Carillo con rods.
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
MayorMcCheese wrote:
Last time I looked 1.9l studs were hard to come by and the rods that are being sold by the normal vendors had 2.1l studs in them.


Just tighten the 2.1L bolts to the 1.9L specs.



I think that Wildthings meant to write

"Just tighten the new 2.1L bolts to the 1.9L specs."
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hardway
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

There is nothing wrong with stretch rod bolts or in this case studs. But you should not reuse them. Most modern engines use them. The problem with the Vanagon rod cap studs is that they must be pressed out and in. That means that the big end needs to be resized.

Of course when you "rebuild" an engine the rods should have the big ends shaved down and resized anyway. Along with new pin bushings and checking for twist etc..

A lot of people have gotten away without any of this, myself included. But I did lose a motor to a #3 rod before. Took the wind out of my sails.

Have you ever wondered why it is always #3? What came first? The out of round big end or the low oil pressure at the #3 rod journal. Is it a stretched rod bolt? Or is it oil leakage dropping the pressure from the case being warped and the main journals being wobbled out? You cannot tell from the autopsy. Only that something very bad happened.

You have to put together a lot of motors that should not have been put together before you understand what you cannot do. There is no substitute for learning the hard way. Rejecting cores is the most valuable skill of a re-builder. Remanufactured, Rebuilt or Refurbished. Which description is more accurate?

I am going to put together a 2.1 for my wife's beater work Syncro. The buzzer was coming on. I had to install a permanent oil pressure gauge to prove that the buzzer was correct. The bus had to be driven 20 miles under load to turn on the buzzer.

I bought a new set of Genuine VW con rods from Van Cafe for $300.00.
Those rods have new fasteners. These con rods are still available. Since I have two cores that are original and never have been opened I can probably put together a motor that will last as long as me, my wife and the beater Syncro. But it is getting brand new con rods
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
At Last a proper explanation of 1 time use fasteners and the proper way to resurface rods Applause Applause Applause Applause
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ThinkingD
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon is now Vanagone update Reply with quote

Alleycat1990 wrote:
My mechanic in Ottawa found a core. It is currently being rebuilt and will be reinstalled in July. No I did not over rev the engine and the oil had been done about a week before. I also installed one of the GlowShift Oil Filter Sandwich Adapter and I am using the recommended oil from Vanagain and a Mann filter. I bought everything from Vanagain. I spoke to the second last owner and he had changed the oil before selling to the last owner. She put almost no miles on it because of health issues roughly 200 miles. But I changed the oil anyways. Yes Mike Condolli did the rebuild. In 2020 it was sent out for the machine shop aspect of the build. I put 20 W50 oil in it because that is what was recommended by Vanagain.


Who is re-building it?
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