| Author |
Message |
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 4:15 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
 |
|
| wagen19 wrote: |
| Broke67beetle wrote: |
No, the alternator never worked.
The battery died at the shop. Where the mechanic worked on it
He said, I needed a new battery.
The place where I got the battery charged and tested.
Said, battery is good, it doesn't want to replace
I installed the battery, it died overnight.
Tried a different battery
Connected Gen light.
Generator light stays on
Then I ran the parasitic draw tests. |
What´s about the generator lamp in speedo?
Was it ON, when engine was OFF when you picked up your car at shop, mechanic?
I got it that way, for a period of time after you had got your car back from shop, the gen lamp has worked, as it should.
A alternator can only work properly, as long as the Gen light is connected and correct wired.
The Gen lamp in speedo needs terminal 61 D+, blue wire AND switched + from terminal 15 black wire (not GROUND !)
With luck and I hope that for you, uncorrect wiring of Gen lamp causes non charging of alternator which if hopefully still not shot. |
No the light in the speedometer for the generator is the light that I'm talking about the Gen. light.
I connected it after looking at a diagram. And doing a little research
But from the mechanic, the warning light for the generator was not connect
I'm gonna have the mechanic do that alternator test
Then I will look at the wiring better, I took it back last night. I don't know about it being grounded. It was just capped off inside where the regulator was |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 651
Location: germany
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 4:40 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Broke67beetle wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| Broke67beetle wrote: |
No, the alternator never worked.
The battery died at the shop. Where the mechanic worked on it
He said, I needed a new battery.
The place where I got the battery charged and tested.
Said, battery is good, it doesn't want to replace
I installed the battery, it died overnight.
Tried a different battery
Connected Gen light.
Generator light stays on
Then I ran the parasitic draw tests. |
What´s about the generator lamp in speedo?
Was it ON, when engine was OFF when you picked up your car at shop, mechanic?
I got it that way, for a period of time after you had got your car back from shop, the gen lamp has worked, as it should.
A alternator can only work properly, as long as the Gen light is connected and correct wired.
The Gen lamp in speedo needs terminal 61 D+, blue wire AND switched + from terminal 15 black wire (not GROUND !)
With luck and I hope that for you, uncorrect wiring of Gen lamp causes non charging of alternator which if hopefully still not shot. |
No the light in the speedometer for the generator is the light that I'm talking about the Gen. light.
I connected it after looking at a diagram. And doing a little research
But from the mechanic, the warning light for the generator was not connect
I'm gonna have the mechanic do that alternator test
Then I will look at the wiring better, I took it back last night. I don't know about it being grounded. It was just capped off inside where the regulator was |
Aha!
It seems, you are on the right way now.
The wiring including connected Gen light must be corrected at first and only after that, the alternator and Gen light in speedo can work properly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
It really is starting to sound like a bad alternator even though it is basically new. I'm concerned that the mechanic allowed the car to leave the shop with the GEN lamp disconnected? He should have known this would prevent the alternator from charging. Was it a loose wire/connection or as you suggested the blue and green wires under the rear seat were left unspliced (more than just reconnecting to form the circuit)?
From your descriptions, after reconnecting the GEN lamp...
The GEN lamp now turns ON with the key and goes OFF after starting the engine.
When you raise the idle a bit your get a 14.0v reading measured at the battery terminals. This is within the normal range and should maintain a charge on the battery while driving.
You took the battery to the FLAPS and had them recharged and test it. They say it tests good.
But, your parasitic leak testing indicates the alternator is drawing 3A+ while connected when everything is OFF. This current draw goes away when disconnecting the alternator wires at the alternator. This basically confirms it is the alternator internals that are creating the draw.
Can you confirm which of the two alternator wires is the source? I'd suspect it will be the B+ (thick) red wire that when disconnected causes the drain to stop. Please confirm. This typically happens when the internal rectifier diode fails.
I would hope the mechanic takes responsibility and makes good on installing a faulty alternator and gets you a replacement. Bosch made or re-manufactured alternators are the gold standard for replacements. It is saddening to hear one died before the car left the shop, but as with anything mechanical it is possible to get a "lemon".
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33043
Location: Hot Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| ashman40 wrote: |
| But, your parasitic leak testing indicates the alternator is drawing 3A+ while connected when everything is OFF. This current draw goes away when disconnecting the alternator wires at the alternator. This basically confirms it is the alternator internals that are creating the draw. |
My two VWs run generators, but I've got alternators in my three small trucks and Mrs. Cusser's Yukon. So I visit several automotive forums.
My reading has led me to the conclusion that quite a few parasitic draws ARE from alternators, quite common.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:59 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| ashman40 wrote: |
It really is starting to sound like a bad alternator even though it is basically new. I'm concerned that the mechanic allowed the car to leave the shop with the GEN lamp disconnected? He should have known this would prevent the alternator from charging. Was it a loose wire/connection or as you suggested the blue and green wires under the rear seat were left unspliced (more than just reconnecting to form the circuit)?
From your descriptions, after reconnecting the GEN lamp...
The GEN lamp now turns ON with the key and goes OFF after starting the engine.
When you raise the idle a bit your get a 14.0v reading measured at the battery terminals. This is within the normal range and should maintain a charge on the battery while driving.
You took the battery to the FLAPS and had them recharged and test it. They say it tests good.
But, your parasitic leak testing indicates the alternator is drawing 3A+ while connected when everything is OFF. This current draw goes away when disconnecting the alternator wires at the alternator. This basically confirms it is the alternator internals that are creating the draw.
Can you confirm which of the two alternator wires is the source? I'd suspect it will be the B+ (thick) red wire that when disconnected causes the drain to stop. Please confirm. This typically happens when the internal rectifier diode fails.
I would hope the mechanic takes responsibility and makes good on installing a faulty alternator and gets you a replacement. Bosch made or re-manufactured alternators are the gold standard for replacements. It is saddening to hear one died before the car left the shop, but as with anything mechanical it is possible to get a "lemon". |
That about sums it up
Although the light is staying on with the key out of the Ignition and the battery connected
It goes out when I turn over the car.
Similar to bad regulator
I would assume that it's from the b.+ because it was drawing current before. I connected the blue and green wires under the seat.
Unfortunately, I was unable to get ahold of the mechanic for him to do the test at the alternator to see what lead Is drawing power or if there is a draw at the alternator
even though I'm pretty sure there is based off of my tests on the battery.
The mechanic said that it was charging the battery when he installed it
I didn't run that test until I had connected the wires under the seat
I honestly don't know how that would be possible
When I talked to the guy at the flaps i showed him the diagram i got off of jbugs, and he said that it could potentially be a self exciting thing alternator and that would be the only reason for
Not to connect those wires.
Looking on jbugs and the paperwork that came with the alternator
It doesn't say anything about self exciting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33043
Location: Hot Arizona
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 651
Location: germany
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Cusser wrote: |
From gallery
|
I assume, if the alternator pulls 3 Ampere, it, or something else should get warming up.
For me, that chrome sheets in engine compartment has no cut outs for wiring (visable). I´m afraid, there can be (sometimes only) shorts.
In earlier posts with pics about wiring at dash, speedo, Gen lamp, I´m also afraid, that there can something be not correct.
Maybe the mechanic had no look at correct wiring of Gen lamp at speedo (he had an order to do?) and also has not checked the wires to engine compartment for shorts.
Imo it´s possible, that this car has electric issues around the speedo, as well as in wiring to engine compartment since, for a longer time.
If so, any new alternator or generator, regulator can´t work properly and gets shot very soon.
Bad wiring is killing electric and electronic parts, makes a car unsafe and can cause fires! (also in your garage) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 3:44 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| wagen19 wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
From gallery
|
I assume, if the alternator pulls 3 Ampere, it, or something else should get warming up.
For me, that chrome sheets in engine compartment has no cut outs for wiring (visable). I´m afraid, there can be (sometimes only) shorts.
In earlier posts with pics about wiring at dash, speedo, Gen lamp, I´m also afraid, that there can something be not correct.
Maybe the mechanic had no look at correct wiring of Gen lamp at speedo (he had an order to do?) and also has not checked the wires to engine compartment for shorts.
Imo it´s possible, that this car has electric issues around the speedo, as well as in wiring to engine compartment since, for a longer time.
If so, any new alternator or generator, regulator can´t work properly and gets shot very soon.
Bad wiring is killing electric and electronic parts, makes a car unsafe and can cause fires! (also in your garage) |
I suppose that that could be a possibility. I did have a generator and regulator working at one point i did run continuity tests. The wires in the engine Bay were pretty bad heat rotted, or whatever. Brittle.
That's why I took it into the mechanic to have him Fix up the wires in the engine Bay and put reverse lights in. And a grommet through the metal engine tin
He ended up doing way more.
I had planned on going in the front trunk and doing the wiring one wire at a time, cleaning it up, but all of that is covered up, zip tied and changed
It all looks really good.
But I really can't make heads or tails of any of it. I barely figured out which wires ran to the headlights.
I would assume he ran continuity tests through the wires.
Without having the car to look at i'll just have to wait till I get the car back
I mean, I don't believe I can go to the mechanic shop and just start working on my car. I would like to
I might try today. Honestly, I'm very, very particular about how I would like things to look, and I honestly don't think they heard me when I said, don't drill a hole in my car for a battery disconnect.
Honestly, i'm so frustrated if they've done this ( drill a hole somewhere up front for a battery disconnect.)
Does somebody want to buy my car i won't even charge for the thousands of dollars of work I've put into it just flat rate of what I've paid for the car. I have the original bill to prove price. Although if somebody would want to pay more pm me
lol i think i'm kidding
I would honestly take some silicone spray and pull new wires through
Especially the ones that go to the alternator i don't know how they go through the car though. If there's lots of bends the new wires you might become disconnected before I get the ends through
Has anyone done something like this with any success? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 651
Location: germany
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
Assuming your new alternator is probably shot.
What to do now???
Suggest to check all your left over single parts for condition.
As it´s possible to affix a generator on a alternator stand, you have the possibility to go back to "generator + Regulator". That could make sense and possibly be cheaper, if you have some good parts on hand.
It looks, your mechanic meanwhile has replaced the shot wires to gen/alt. (but possibly AFTER the new alt was already shot)
If it would be my car, I would remove the engine and also delete that shiny alu sheets. For me it´s unclear what about the other wires, whether they are safe. Most critical is the terminal 15 wire to coil. When engine and sheet is off, you can really see and check all the wiring. Go original with quality mats in engine compartment.
Maybe, before you start, treat your car as a whole and check for rust everywhere and maybe other defective parts. If your whole car is solid, NOW a more than expected expensive repair, propery done, can bring a good and "cheap" and lucky future.
I hope for the best! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:12 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
Yesterday mechanic told me he sent defective parts back waiting to hear from store if they're willing to warranty.
I don't know much about jbugs, warranty program. I have ordered parts from them previously. Never had to return anything to them before
Anyone else had experience with returning parts to jbugs?
He said he's not going to put the battery disconnect.
He said he ran the parasitic draw. Tests, again, the only thing that was drawing was the altonater so with a good part, it shouldn't need it
I'll give an update soon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:25 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Broke67beetle wrote: |
| He said he's not going to put the battery disconnect. |
I forgot to comment on your point about a battery disconnect…
Take a look at a 60A circuit breaker with a reset-test switch similar to this:
https://a.co/d/9GaCjaK
It is installed on the wire running from the positive battery post to the first junction under the left rear seat. The battery to starter cable remains connected. When you press the test switch it opens the circuit in the same way a battery disconnect does but this only disconnects the electrical wiring from the battery post. Move the reset lever to reconnect the circuit.
Because this is a circuit breaker it also has the benefit of protecting your wiring when you make a stupid mistake like dropping a wrench onto the fuse box! Any sudden huge current spike greater an 60A will trip the breaker.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 264
Location: Eastern north carolina
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:50 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| That is a nice simple looking circuit breaker. If you have installed one of these could you comment on the quality. Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
We installed one in my buddy's Beetle. Been working great for years now. It saved us a couple times already from ourselves but mostly he uses it to disconnect the battery for weeks at a time.
I like this style because you lock the stripped wire ends into the ends of the circuit breaker and no extra ring or spade terminals are needed.
There are other styles but all you really care about is the amp rating and that it has a test button and is manually resettable.
There are thermal type circuit breakers that function to protect the circuit but you cannot test-reset them.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lgherb
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2023
Posts: 52
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 5:14 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Broke67beetle wrote: |
Yesterday mechanic told me he sent defective parts back waiting to hear from store if they're willing to warranty.
I don't know much about jbugs, warranty program. I have ordered parts from them previously. Never had to return anything to them before
Anyone else had experience with returning parts to jbugs?
He said he's not going to put the battery disconnect.
He said he ran the parasitic draw. Tests, again, the only thing that was drawing was the altonater so with a good part, it shouldn't need it
I'll give an update soon |
If the wiring in the engine bay is old/brittle, it might be worth getting a new engine bay wiring harness like this one:
https://www2.cip1.com/C16-W-1001/
I'm sure there are other vendors offering similar engine harnesses.
This would at least eliminate any possible wiring shorts from the engine bay to inside of the car. (However, there could be wiring issues from that point forward.)
It's probably also worth your while to research anything you can about upgrading air cooled VWs from a generator to an alternator since an alternator has an internal voltage regulator and a generator needs an external one (as some have already commented on).
_________________
The only dumb question is the one that is never asked.
Last edited by lgherb on Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 264
Location: Eastern north carolina
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:06 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Thanks for the good info here. I like how that circuit breaker connects-simple and easy. And for beat up, burned, spliced, or butchered engine bay wiring that cip1 harness looks good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
Thanks
Now if I ever get the car back
I did hear friday they're still waiting on the test for the alternator.
With that switch could I run a new battery positive wire and have that say near the shifter or would it need to be under the seat near the battery |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2025 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
So I just got the car back everything looks good. Said it was a misplaced wire at the front haven't looked at it, said it was something that went from the key to the fuse box.
The both lights came on on either side of the turn signal
Good to go
Stopped at the parts store
Go to leave and no gen/alt light
At this point it is pouring rain
So I figure go home pull battery and see later
The dam thing is welded to the battery
I did get it off
I said I would update you all
I think that parts store is cursed |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 264
Location: Eastern north carolina
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2025 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Wow that is some very bad luck there. Have you told the mechanic what happened? If so what was the response? I hope you can get this resolved so you can get some enjoyment from the car. Good luck-Bob |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broke67beetle
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2025
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2025 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| Bobs67vwagen wrote: |
| Wow that is some very bad luck there. Have you told the mechanic what happened? If so what was the response? I hope you can get this resolved so you can get some enjoyment from the car. Good luck-Bob |
No,... I want to look at it first.
he said the entire wire harness needs redone and needs a new fuse panel,
Something was arcing in the fuse panel
but was safe to drive home
I had wanted to check the wires up front my self everything needed cleaned and labeled,
but when they did the engine, they did everything
new flasher Turn signal, it was sticky, but now the switch broken and it'll spin around the whole steering column. But it does turn off automatically, if you can find it now
Probably a bunch of other things not really sure yet
I just said, redo the engine wires and fix the.Reverse lights
That was before I needed the alternator
It all worked before it was just particular.
Like you had to turn the turn signal on and pull the emergencies to make the emergencies flash, that's not a big deal
Probably work on it this weekend if my husband doesn't want to do something else.
Maybe I'll take it to work and work on it on break
****** oh, it seems to run really hot now that I have the alternator in there. Instead of the generator ?????
I'm just worried the oil cooler.Got banged up, but there's no leaking****** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobs67vwagen
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 264
Location: Eastern north carolina
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2025 3:26 am Post subject: Re: 67 beetle new alternator keeps killing my battery |
|
|
| At this point it might be your only alternative to replace the entire wiring harness with a new one. There are many videos on this and with some help you could do it yourself. These cars were always known for their simplicity, and after what you have been through I think you may need to start fresh to get to that point. Keep your spirits up- Bob |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
