83mm 1500cc piston/cylinder question

[67rustavenger]

The crank and dist. drive can be refurbished.
Have a machine shop measure the crank and clean up the rust.
Cranks are pretty tough and can take a lot of abuse.

On the dist drive. Place it in some evapo-rust and it'll come out nice and clean.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas!

[aquifer]

[67rustavenger]

[Rome]

You probably held the carb's throttle and choke plates fully open when you did the compression tests, per usual practice?

A few years ago I placed a used, rusty crank (degreased) into a plastic 18" plant box and covered it with white vinegar.

After a few days the loose rust was easily scrubbed off with an old toothbrush.

I left the crank in for weeks, and a thick, rough crust developed on the cleaned surfaces. Really damaged the surfaces. The crank had wallowed out dowel pin holes so it was not an immediately usable crank anyway. Lesson: If you use the vinegar, take the crank out after no more than a few days, rinse off the vinegar with clean water, dry off the crank immediately and spray it with bar & chain oil to preserve it. Spray WD-40 with the small nozzle straw through the crank center drillings/passages until the spray comes out clean against a paper towel.

I've since also tried Evapo-Rust on small parts, with excellent results.

Clean all of your case perimeter nuts and bolts in solvent, then reuse. Make sure you install the "wavy washers" under the M8 nuts. Those are lock washers to prevent the nuts from working loose over time due to engine vibrations. No need to buy an engine case hardware kit that has the nylon-insert locknuts. You should also invest in an M8 x 1.25 tap and die to clean the threads if the nuts don't run down easily by hand.

[aquifer]

I got the engine split and am learning as I go. I read about crankshaft bearing dowels and I carefully extracted and bagged them, but see the first two pictures below.

I circled the dowels. There are four in the left case half and only one in the right half. Bentley is silent about the right half. There is clearly another hole for a dowel. I didn’t drop one, there wasn’t one there. Is that normal?

The third picture is just to the right of the oil pump. What is the top plug for? There doesn’t seem to be anything behind it. Not sure if I should remove it. The bottom one won’t move and I’m uncertain how to remove the oil pickup tube. Is there a nut behind the bottom one for the pickup tube?

Here’s the third pic related to my question above about the plugs.

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[67rustavenger]

The fifth dowel pin is not required per se. Once the bearings are in place and the case is torqued, they cannot move. If you feel you really want the fifth pin, buy one.

Leave the plugs in place. They are factory machining plugs.
There's really, IMO, no reason to pull them when cleaning the case.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas!

[aquifer]

[glutamodo]

The rear-facing plugs, just production-line plugs and myself, I never mess with them personally. I think some people remove them to get better access to cleaning the oil galleries but for me just solvent, rinse and blow is good enough.

Yes, Pickup tube assembly is just pressed in the case and was not even secured at the strainer plate until during model year 1965, which is when they added the longer stud and hold down tab, just that one self-locking nut and washer. No need to remove the pickup tube if it's not damaged. In fact, you want it to fit tight in the case and messing with it, could potentially diminish that.

_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

Thank you I appreciate the advice. I have to remove the pickup tube because it’s really rusty. Rusted engine internals is what started me down this path. Not sure how it got so rusted in there but I don’t want to address everything else and ignore the tube, so I’ll remove it and figure out how to secure a new one later.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[Rome]

[aquifer]

I will keep that in mind, thank you. I’m changing my mind after washing the case halves in my parts washer. I think the oil pickup tube is fine, just discolored. I left it in place for now and will revisit the situation later.

Below is what the internals look like. After cleaning them up a little, I see VW stamps, and I think they are probably original. Note the rust, and the two journals that I can see are scored like the pic below. Is it possible to save the crank, rods, and camshaft in this condition? See pics below.

FWIW, I am still of the opinion that the case is fine. As I’ve said, the engine had been rebuilt prior to my ownership, but the car was improperly stored for years, hence the rusted engine parts. The end play before I started was .004”, and the bearings seemed very snug in the case. The thrust bearing was tight, zero movement, and seemed to snap nicely out of the case and back in when I was fiddling with it today. I’ll have a machine shop measure everything and tell me what size bearings I need, and whether machining is actually needed.

I’m hoping I can get new bearings, and either repair my crank/cam or replace them, and not have to do any machining.

Any thoughts or advice is welcome. Here’s the pictures:

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[Rome]

Your crank's center main journal scoring looks like a simple polishing won't be enough, though you can try. Most likely will need to have it machined for next undersize so that you end up with a smooth, nearly mirror-finish on the journal. Such machining is usually done for all 3 of the larger main journals, and to the small one at the pulley end so that you buy a full set of bearings which are next undersize.

Before you remove the rods from the crank, you can rotate all rods so that they line up across the small ends. When in that position, push any of the piston wrist pins through two adjacent small ends. If the rods are not slightly bent, the pin will push through one rod and cleanly into another. If one of the adjacent rods is slightly bent, the pin won't go into the 2nd rod. Slightly bent rods can be straightened by an automotive machine shop.

Mark the connecting rods with the cylinder locations (1 thru 4) before you remove them from the crank. After cleaning, examine the surfaces on the big ends carefully for signs of blue discoloration. That indicates overheating. If no bluing is observed, used connecting rods can be sent in as rebuildable cores to machine shops which sell you rebuilt rods, which are probably cheaper than having your rods redone. Rebuilding rods also includes checking the big ends' bores, and "resizing". If you can still find a shop that sells rebuilt rods, compare the prices to new ones made in China...

Camshaft reuse- possible. You have to check each lobe carefully for bluing (overheating). Then you can measure the total lift at the peak of the lobe and compare to that of the other lobes to determine if the basic lobe has worn down too much. Distance of lobe tip to the bottom of the lobe, compared to the distance a quarter turn where you're measuring across the cam. That difference would be the total lift. Measure several times to gain confidence and repeatability.

Also examine the teeth on the cam gear for excessive wear/chips/broken sections.

[ashman40]

[aquifer]

I’m absorbing advice like a sponge, thank you!

Below is a picture of my camshaft bore in the case…not sure what it’s called. This one appears to be damaged, like maybe the bushing spun. It didn’t spin too much, because you can still see the VW stamp in there. This one is the worst, but the one on the other end is similar. The one in the middle looks fine. Both case halves look like this.

There aren’t any dowels like there are for the crankshaft, so I’m not sure how the bushings are kept from spinning. It would seem that my cam bore needs to be line bored? Do they make oversized bushings to use after line boring this area? What keeps the bushings from spinning in the case?

What am I looking at here? A problem? Normal? Fixable?

Thanks again for all input!

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[glutamodo]

I doubt the cam bearing shell "spun out", those bearing shells seat rather exactly and the little corner indents are sufficient to keep them in place. I like to use red colored Scotch Brite to polish those case surfaces. (cutting Scotch Brite into long strips, you can use those to polish the rod and main bearing surfaces on the crankshaft too.)

Now one test that the machinist I used back in the early 90s told me to do, now that the case is cleaned and totally bare is to put it back together completely empty. Get out the 6 big nuts and washers and tighten, then torque the case to spec, 25 foot pounds. Then get out a bright flashlight in a dim room and put in where the crankshaft ought to be, shine it at where the bearing saddles come together and see how flush they are. If you can see an air gap where the case halves meet, the case is warped. My guess this one is good, but I always check this, and I have discarded cases that failed this.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[ashman40]

[aquifer]

Fair enough, thank you.

Getting ready to take the block, crank, cam, and old bearings to my local engine shop. He doesn't do VW engines, but he's a friend so he's going to measure stuff and assess the condition of things.

He said to properly torque the case halves back together so he can measure the bearing saddles inside the case. I assume they should be round, and if so, I probably won't need to line bore it? He isn't set up to line bore a VW engine, but he can tell me if the bore is round, what size OD the bearings should be, and he can clean everything.

He said it's critical to flush the oil galleys and passages so there isn't stuff floating around in there, which makes sense to me. He mentioned an oil galley plug in a normal engine, but I don't think there is such a thing on a VW engine? So what is the best way to flush the oil galleys? He has an industrial engine solvent washer that looks like a giant dishwasher to me. Apparently you can also hook up a hose to the oil galleys and flush them.

Once I know if the bore is round, and everything is clean, we'll move on to the crank and camshaft. I will report back with my findings.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[glutamodo]

I've taken cases to the coin op car wash and blasted out the oil galleries, this was after spray-can carb/choke cleaner run through them. And usually hose some clean water in there before I blow them out with compressed air. I briefly mentioned this earlier but very simply, when I said "just solvent, rinse and blow is good enough".

Yeah you'd have to bolt the case together to mic it. For that flashlight test I mentioned above, the 6 big nuts are enough to reveal a warped block, so no need to spend any more time than that. You might want to do at least some of the others though if you're getting the case mic'd.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

A few new developments that I’d like to hear your thoughts on:

1. The engine hasn’t been overhauled as the PO represented.

2. The crank bearing bores measure .001” or less over the maximum tolerance for standard bore, according to my engine machinist buddy, who has detailed books that give tolerances. He doesn’t do VW engines, but he is measuring stuff for me and offering advice. I watched him measure, and educated myself. He said his normal reaction is to line bore and bring everything back into specs. But he did say that in this case I might get by ok just putting it together with new standard size bearings. What do you think?

3. We have not measured the crank journals or the rods yet, but probably by tomorrow we’ll know what shape they are in. His visual assessment says that the crank journals that are visible may polish up pretty good and not need grinding. If it does need grinding, where can I find smaller ID bearings? Everything I saw online is standard ID bearings, which would mean that grinding the crank is not possible, and a new crank would be needed I guess?

4. He highly recommends removing the oil galley plugs and cleaning out the galleys with solvent and brushes. He’s a very good engine builder (but doesn’t do VW’s) and he said he would very much recommend it. You can get threaded galley plugs online, which would require tapping. This doesn’t terrify me, and my buddy thinks it’s no big deal at all for the peace of mind it provides by getting the galleys clean. What say you about removing the galley plugs?

I’m interested in your general thoughts. Assuming the crank can be polished and the main bearing bores are .001 over tolerance, what would you do? Keep in mind that the car is semi retired. It’s driven delicately and mainly for fun. That said, I want it to be in good enough shape for Sunday drives around the area.

Thank you again!
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[aquifer]

I need to replace the oil pump. The pump is original, the tab that goes in the camshaft is worn pretty badly, and the gear faces are slightly pitted. My buddy recommended a new pump while we’re at it.

We found a “heavy duty” pump at CB Performance for 6mm studs. Says the gears are 1/4” longer than stock, so probably about 27mm-ish vs 21mm that mine are. The claim is that it pumps more volume and pressure, which it probably does.

Here are my questions/concerns:

1. Will the higher pressure cause the oil to run hotter? The oil pump description claims that it will run cooler, but I can’t see how that’s true. More pressure would keep the relief valve pushed down until it got REALLY hot and thin enough for the valve to close and force the oil to the cooler. Or what am I missing here?

2. Are my studs long enough for the bigger pump? The description claims it bolts right in. Hmm. Not sure about that…does anyone know?

3. As far as I can tell, CB Performance is a good quality supplier. But if I want a truly stock new 21mm pump, who makes the best one? CB doesn’t offer completely stock pumps, unless I missed it somehow. I saw others on the internet, but I’m not sure of the quality.

4. Does anyone have experience with the CB Performance heavy duty pump?

We’re going to call CB to order what we need, to make sure we get the right stuff, so we will ask these questions. But I’d feel better if I had some independent answers to the questions ahead of time!

Thanks again for all the advice. I’m learning a TON about engine rebuilding from my buddy and from the research and advice I’ve gotten here.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67