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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3688
Location: Paradise, Ca
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2025 11:47 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Lots of out of the box thinking here, love it. Gaining the extra cc's via the cylinders vs going over 86 stroke is great. Thank you for taking the time to post this, and give others ideas.
Having 140ft lbs of torque at 3500 rpms is pretty darn respectable. Able to share which CB cam you used?
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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Brian_e 
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Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 4316
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2025 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Did you start with AA thick wall 94mm cylinders, and then bore them for the 96mm?
Brian
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Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2025 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| Brian_e wrote: |
Did you start with AA thick wall 94mm cylinders, and then bore them for the 96mm?
Brian |
No that's not how we went about it.
Jpaull I don't want to share any specific specs just yet as we haven't landed a fully completed combo.
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2025 6:10 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| CasteSystems wrote: |
| Brian_e wrote: |
Did you start with AA thick wall 94mm cylinders, and then bore them for the 96mm?
Brian |
No that's not how we went about it.
Jpaull I don't want to share any specific specs just yet as we haven't landed a fully completed combo. |
about time someone brought up the 96's, were a page into this and just been discussing an 86 in a mag case which has been done many times.
CasteSystems, you put this out on front street so you can't act all aloof about the 96's now when asked. so come on with it, lets hear about 'em.
im imagining that considering you used a mag case that costs is concern for this build so I'd assume you took the same path with the P&C's?
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| BFB wrote: |
| CasteSystems wrote: |
| Brian_e wrote: |
Did you start with AA thick wall 94mm cylinders, and then bore them for the 96mm?
Brian |
No that's not how we went about it.
Jpaull I don't want to share any specific specs just yet as we haven't landed a fully completed combo. |
about time someone brought up the 96's, were a page into this and just been discussing an 86 in a mag case which has been done many times.
CasteSystems, you put this out on front street so you can't act all aloof about the 96's now when asked. so come on with it, lets hear about 'em.
im imagining that considering you used a mag case that costs is concern for this build so I'd assume you took the same path with the P&C's? |
It's totally a fair question but it is also something I spent probably a year or more thinking about, doing calculations, measurements, research, and then the last 8 or so months putting into reality with a lot of trial and error machining. And now even more time tuning and testing. That being said it isn't something, especially right now in the still early steps of making it a reality something I just want to tell everyone how to do.
I don't mean to be a gate-keeper, nor are my intentions malicious in anyway truly. Honestly I have since I was a teenager wanted to do something that was "my own" for the air-cooled performance community and that is the driving idea behind this. I want to ultimately be able to offer this "package" for sale as a viable option for the people seeking that 200 wheel HP NA street driving feel, and knowing there are people and enthusiasts out there driving a CSP 2.5l. That is a goal very dear to me.
My '68 Herbie which is the test car, is now a pretty scary car when you want it to be and I own a 1100whp RS3. I can't even imagine what this current power and tq will feel like in a fiberglass speedster replica haha.
To somewhat answer your question though, I will say I did find a piston and cylinder combo ultimately that I like and it is working but it took a lot of in house machining to make fit to achieve proper cyl wall thickness and case rigidity in my opinion. The other reason I wanted bigger bore, not just for cc, but was to keep stroke lower and maintain higher revving HP, kind of similar to how Porsche does it with GT cars, huge bore, tiny stroke, high rpm capabilities. We are not done at 7200rpm, going to try and rev out higher ultimately.
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2025 10:17 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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I can totally understand and respect that , buuuut again thats one of things with posting a build on a forum like this, your kind of expected to " show and tell". otherwise you just sell you product and dont post a thread about it, only to talk about part of the build but not the other.
im not trying to push you to spill the beans, you dont want to, thats fine. like I said, I respect that. but look at it from the other side, its been done ( maybe not like how you've done it ), alot of ppl here could do it whether you shared or not, but likely wont do it or at the very least do it and market it like you are doing.
you dont think Dan's beehives couldn't be duplicated? or Andrig's fans? the AMR blower kits? sure theres little things all those guys know that'd be difficult for the next guy to get right away but its still doable. but most guys wont just out of respect. I mean , I might be an asshole but I wouldn't cross that line and think anyone who does deserves an ass beating.
not to mention, you could sue them. especially considering that you've posted here, you have proof of your timeframe and original idea / procedure.
im just saying, whatever you choose to do, dont stress about someone stealing your thunder. personally, I dont think itd happen in the vw community
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27757
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2025 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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I can see from the pics they are cast cylinders, so the machining can't be that extensive.
Those look to be CB super pro heads, not superflow
Thanks for sharing teh project it's RIGHT up my alley.
CB heads and a 96 bore is a fantastic idea, we discussed it in the past how awesome it would be, but I guess nobody has the balls to get it done yet, so congrats on making our dreams real, you did it, and we all wish we had one!
Tho I'll be honest the name you have chosen already has multiple untended meanings for a lot of people in this community.
California highway patrol, Colorado springs police, and the UK place called CSP, and now it means cloud service provider.
But you can feel free to ignore my whining on that, I mean, it's just my pet peeve I guess, three letter acronyms are all used up. I read the BBC news every day but....... every time it think it......... I can't help but think it. |
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ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2025 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| CasteSystems wrote: |
| ...I can't even imagine what this current power and tq will feel like in a fiberglass speedster replica haha... |
FYI- Most replica Speedsters weigh in the 1700- 1800 lbs range, about the same as an earlier Beetle, so that kind of power, whether Beetle or Speedster, would just be too much (and pretty scary) for most people (I'm sure you already know this). The almost foot shorter wheelbase and 185 mm tire limitation that non-flared Speedsters impose on their owners would make it a little more interesting for some as well. And keeping an engine that big cool, given most Speedsters limited air intake into the engine compartment, would take a little work. Not impossible- just a little bit more work.
THAT said- VERY cool project! I love it. And I just happen to have an 86mm Berg crank kicking around. Fascinating...   (think big evil laugh here!)
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2025 10:07 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| modok wrote: |
...
Tho I'll be honest the name you have chosen already has multiple untended meanings for a lot of people in this community.
California highway patrol, Colorado springs police, and the UK place called CSP, and now it means cloud service provider.
But you can feel free to ignore my whining on that, I mean, it's just my pet peeve I guess, three letter acronyms are all used up. I read the BBC news every day but....... every time it think it......... I can't help but think it. |
is it possible your underlying issues with three letter acronyms may have some relation to me?? hmmmm, interesting.
also, BBC, funny. " BBC, working long and hard to bring you the latest news"
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 539
Location: Nowhere, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Well done CasteSystems.
I've had a replica Speedster for over 25 years. One of the engines I've had made 200 hp back there under the deck-lid, but it was a very, very stressed combo -- fun around town, fast GT touring (where the car shines) was not something that the engine was particularly well suited for. Something more lightly stressed with the same power output would be the cat's meow. What you've done is stupid-cool.
More is more.
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"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie." |
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 8:13 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| modok wrote: |
I can see from the pics they are cast cylinders, so the machining can't be that extensive.
Those look to be CB super pro heads, not superflow
Thanks for sharing teh project it's RIGHT up my alley.
CB heads and a 96 bore is a fantastic idea, we discussed it in the past how awesome it would be, but I guess nobody has the balls to get it done yet, so congrats on making our dreams real, you did it, and we all wish we had one!
Tho I'll be honest the name you have chosen already has multiple untended meanings for a lot of people in this community.
California highway patrol, Colorado springs police, and the UK place called CSP, and now it means cloud service provider.
But you can feel free to ignore my whining on that, I mean, it's just my pet peeve I guess, three letter acronyms are all used up. I read the BBC news every day but....... every time it think it......... I can't help but think it. |
Haha CSP is Caste Systems Performance, my shop in NJ, been in business 20yrs now. It is based on a stupid nickname from high school, I didn't have creative friends. I know there is another CSP in europe, I should've used the full name in posting but everyone in the water-cooled community typically refers to us as just CSP.
"I can totally understand and respect that , buuuut again thats one of things with posting a build on a forum like this, your kind of expected to " show and tell". otherwise you just sell you product and dont post a thread about it, only to talk about part of the build but not the other.
im not trying to push you to spill the beans, you dont want to, thats fine. like I said, I respect that. but look at it from the other side, its been done ( maybe not like how you've done it ), alot of ppl here could do it whether you shared or not, but likely wont do it or at the very least do it and market it like you are doing.
you dont think Dan's beehives couldn't be duplicated? or Andrig's fans? the AMR blower kits? sure theres little things all those guys know that'd be difficult for the next guy to get right away but its still doable. but most guys wont just out of respect. I mean , I might be an asshole but I wouldn't cross that line and think anyone who does deserves an ass beating.
not to mention, you could sue them. especially considering that you've posted here, you have proof of your timeframe and original idea / procedure.
im just saying, whatever you choose to do, dont stress about someone stealing your thunder. personally, I dont think itd happen in the vw community"
I respect this answer as well and would hope that to be true. I did post in here to share the current progress and also gauge an interest in this engine/management combo being something of an option to people in the future in lieu of all the 2387cc's I see getting built and shipped out on social media lately. A true 200whp engine with FI, great driveability, and the means of scaring the shit out of you when you want it to. haha.
I just got a set of 1.45 ratio rockers we will try to along with different velocity stacks and tuning to see if we can hit that 210whp number.
Thanks again for everyone's comments and support thus far. It means a lot to me
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Well keep us posted!
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27757
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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ok,I'll get used to the name, it's too late now.
Maybe it's more memorable that way.
But far as sharing details that's up to you, I doubt anybody will steal your whole idea for a complete engine.
UK csp stole an idea or two from me but I wish they'd steal a few more too, so I can just buy it instead of custom make it
But it can be useful to work together, and get the volume discount.
What if we can get a batch of super-pro heads without stud holes?? hmmm..... might be a lot easier than welding up the holes or whatever other way we were individually each planning to go about it.
I was going to put type-4 cylinders on a WBX case. Just machine the cylinders to fit. I guess I like making junk into something cool.
Mag case? ok, for tradition. whatever floats your boat  |
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 6:38 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Tried some taller/wider velocity stacks at the top, no real change in curve or peak HP. Have some 3-d printed short and wider mouth stacks to try next to see if anything changes, maybe power carries out further. Or maybe the setup is just maxed out at 203whp, we'll see. Otherwise I have just been putting more miles on the car and enjoying it. The drive ability of the engine combo is amazing, great throttle response and ability to cruise at normal back road speeds, but jeez is that power/torque fun when you want it. So far, so good.
The car won top 15 at VW Loe Show in Pottstown PA 2 weeks ago, a lot of interest in the engine which was cool.
And also keep an eye out for it in an upcoming VW Trends issue soon.
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 6:57 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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They still print vw trends magazine??
_________________
"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 6:59 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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| BFB wrote: |
| They still print vw trends magazine?? |
Lol, I was surprised too. Apparently it's been back since 2020. Ran into the editor at the Terryville Bug a Fair back in June, which was the engine's first outing.
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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CasteSystems
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Norwood, NJ
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2025 8:39 am Post subject: Re: 2490cc Type 1 |
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Still doing testing when I can with other day to day shop work being busy. No real gains, consistent 203whp with stinger and different velocity stacks. Been putting miles on the engine for longevity testing, driveability is amazing. Honestly can be driven like a commuter when you want it to.
In our testing on the dyno we found that the off the shelf 2.5" "phat boy" muffler setup was robbing 5-6whp throughout the rpm range. Just fabbed up this full 3" setup, roughly matching the stinger ID to see if we can maintain the peak power in a true street setup.
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Caste Systems Performance
57 Oak Street
Norwood, NJ 07648
845-418-CSTE
www.CSPerformance.net |
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