Factory installed gas heater

[jcerier]

My all stock 1970 Ghia has what appears to me to be a factory-installed gas heater. The components have VW part numbers on them, and are all installed above the transaxle in a way that I highly doubt a dealer could have done. The wiring also all looks stock. Interesting that when I Google this I can't find anything about it. This also explains the mystery dash light that I had previously posted about. See pictures.

I am in the process of removing this, as I am converting to electric propulsion and want to get anything gas-related out of the car (and reduce remove any unnecessary weight). (If you feel the need to comment on the EV conversion please go to this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=808016&highlight=ev)

I have everything out except one component and another bracket. They are bolted through the sheet metal above the transaxle. I was going to remove the carpet in the storage compartment behind the rear seat to get at the three bolts, but as I started doing that I noticed these three plastic/rubber plugs in the carpet at the locations of the three bolts. I tried prying them out, but they seem very well glued to the carpet. Again, they look very factory, not dealer-installed.

Posting for two reasons:

1. To document what I have here for future reference, and see if anyone knows anything about factory-installed gas heaters.

2. To get thoughts on whether I should pull the carpet out, or yank those plugs out of the carpet, to get to the bolts. I might have to take the carpet out anyway to mount my rear battery box in there anyway, so it might be a moot point. But I am curious to hear people's thoughts.

[jcerier]

I'll add that my car was originally delivered in Canada.

Has anyone ever heard of a heater like this in a Ghia or Beetle?

[jeffrey8164]

I’ve never seen nor heard of such an animal until now.
To me those carpet grommets look like they have a center cap that pops out but not seeing it up close and personal it’s just a guess.
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[Nitramrebrab72]

So that is a Webasto and not a Eberspacher heater that vw usually fit. You can tell it is Webasto from 3 things , 1 it is red in colour first tell tail sign, 2 it's manufacturing plate has only 2 central rivets holding it in place, and 3 the fuel line bango type connector.
Similar models were mainly fitted to 1960's Porsche 911's and 912's s possibly as they take up less room than similar eberspacher ones, but are probably more expensive back then so used only when space was limited on VW's and a high end model which the Karman was sold as..
On the Porsche 911 and 912 the webasto appears to have had porsche factory part numbers...
Just like your webasto in the Karmann having VW part numbers...
It looks totally factory and similar to the porsche one apart from the hose connectors points even though the small and large hose is on also on the 911 and 912.
On the porsche it sits in a purpose built flush hole in the front trunk

[jcerier]

@Nitramrebrab72 for the win! Thanks so much. I knew that someone somewhere in Samba-land would know something about this. Odd that I can't find any reference to it as a factory option anywhere.

Got the rest of it out today. More pics for the record. Found an electrical box under the rear seat that the spark plug and other electrical connections ran to.

Anyone know of a web site where you can look up obsolete VW part numbers?

[Teeroy]

You could order a birth certificate and see what M codes it came with. Possibly look for some Canadian sale brochures and see if it a listed option. I would not rule out dealer install, they could be done as cleanly as factory. Main reason I wouldn't rule it out is the part numbers, all of the one you show start with 111, Beetle part number, Ghia parts start with 141. Not a definite answer, but something to consider. Really not much issue for you since you don't plan on using it .
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[Nitramrebrab72]

[rsbadura]

Webasto is a well know brand in Germany
(founded 1901, 1908 renamed to WeBaSto because of the founder Wilhelm Baier Senior and the location Stockdorf)
It had also supplied a lot for VW parts (sunroofs, auxiliary heaters, etc.).

But I never seen this heater... it's quite rare!
Something that you could also post here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65121 "Rarest accessory?".

Some of the 111 order numbers appear to be for standard parts such as standard exhaust brackets.

The location for this auxiliary heater isn't ideal either – it's near the engine's waste heat, further heating very hot air from the engine while hanging unprotected under the car. The concept doesn't seem particularly durable or reliable. Many other auxiliary heaters were placed in the protected trunk and only heated cold air.

regards,
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1970 VW Karmann-Ghia Coupe
1979 VW Bus L camper conversion
1982 Eriba Pan travel trailer
2017 VW CrossPolo
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[GHIA]

Manual Webasto P1502

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/wabasto/wabstoheatermanual.pdf

[Marlonius]

Fellow Canadian here. Yes, I've seen a few installations like that over the years, including on my '69 parts car. I think I still have a number of the components around.

[Marlonius]

I found a pic from my stash...

[Nitramrebrab72]

That is quite an intriguing heater. It is a heat amplifier as opposed to a stand alone heater.

As it uses the already heated air from the heat exchangers and increases it's temperature by blowing it around a cylinder which has fuel burning inside of it.


It has no fan of it's own to propulse air through it so solely relies on the engine cooling fan shroud take offs that send air first through the exhaust heat exchangers and then through the unit.

Fuel is pumped to the unit by the engines fuel pump via a t-connector. Fuel is sucked into the system using a vacuum air pump a bit like a carburetor and the mixture is determined by a diaphragm regulator.
The air/fuel mixture is then pumped into the heat exchanger part of the unit where it is ignited by a spark plug that is induced by an electronically controlled coil.




Prufrex are the inventors of the electronically controlled coils that we find on todays modern cars.


I guess the Prufrex is the brains of the system as well as a coil , determining when to start the air pump(regulating the speed of it based on the temperature readings it is being sent by the heat sensors in the unit, increasing the speed when it is cooler, decreasing when hotter )when to shut it down and when to send sparks to the spark plug. It also has a too high temp. cut off switch by the looks of things.

Due to the fact it is a heat amplifier it has no temperature setting, so just an on off switch.

[Nitramrebrab72]

I am not 100% certain if the Prufrex regulators the unit by controlling the speed of the pump or by switching it on and off solely based on the temperature sensor feed back or both combined...

[smuenchrath]

They seem to be a fairly common installation on 68-69 Canadian Beetles and Ghias. I have come across a couple over the years.
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69 Ghia Toga White Coupe
74 Yosemite Yellow Westfalia

[Nitramrebrab72]