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ronnie
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2002
Posts: 1053
Location: lost somewhere between the earth and my home.
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 Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| davelarue wrote: |
Ok, lets take my original 1500cc. How exactly can i make it a super?
I am restoring it, so i might as well make it a super. Do i need special tools for this?
Thanks again,
David |
the 1600 super pictured above is a porsche engine, super is just a designation porsche gave their engines, and not something that you can do to your 1500. given your knowledge and experience i reccomend a stockish 1600 to start with. searching the forums will give you ideas of what options are right for you. if your 1500 case is good, you can easily build it into a 1600 with larger pistons at rebuild. |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| ronnie wrote: |
| davelarue wrote: |
Ok, lets take my original 1500cc. How exactly can i make it a super?
I am restoring it, so i might as well make it a super. Do i need special tools for this?
Thanks again,
David |
the 1600 super pictured above is a porsche engine, super is just a designation porsche gave their engines, and not something that you can do to your 1500. given your knowledge and experience i reccomend a stockish 1600 to start with. searching the forums will give you ideas of what options are right for you. if your 1500 case is good, you can easily build it into a 1600 with larger pistons at rebuild. |
Good suggestion. I'll look around. Dumb question: Is there a way to check if the case is ok, when the engine is out?
David |
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a_67vdub
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2003
Posts: 504
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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You can have a machine shop check the case when you've completely disassebled the engine. If your engine is old, then you will probably need machine work. I would just buy a new case, they are pretty cheap.
Edit: Actually, you haven't told us a budget. That should be your starting point in deciding what you can do. |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| a_67vdub wrote: |
You can have a machine shop check the case when you've completely disassebled the engine. If your engine is old, then you will probably need machine work. I would just buy a new case, they are pretty cheap.
Edit: Actually, you haven't told us a budget. That should be your starting point in deciding what you can do. |
My budget is around $500. When i have the engine disasembled, i will take it to the (only) vw shop. I want the engine to be good for a long time, so maybe i should have them check the cylinders and the pistons?
As long as the machine work is done and ok, the rest i can do myself...right? |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, its a single-port. Should i convert it to a double port? Could i take parts from a double port 1300cc, to make my 1500cc a double port?
Sorry all these beginner questions.... |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| number on the engine is 9424607. |
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arthurnugen
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005
Posts: 3082
Location: The PNW, where "going green" means rolling with moss.
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| davelarue wrote: |
| a_67vdub wrote: |
You can have a machine shop check the case when you've completely disassebled the engine. If your engine is old, then you will probably need machine work. I would just buy a new case, they are pretty cheap.
Edit: Actually, you haven't told us a budget. That should be your starting point in deciding what you can do. |
My budget is around $500. |
Uh-Oh.  A new case will cost you around that much. If you plan on only spending $500, better plan to do all of the work yourself and study, study, study! 
_________________
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Lawyers don't deserve buses. |
| zozo wrote: |
| Don't worry too much. You can always trust a lawyer. |
ALWAYS WEAR STEEL-TOE BOOTS IN THE GARAGE!
1965 Bus (Riviera camper)
1972 Bug 'vert
1967 Bug sunroof
1961 Ghia 'vert
1957 DKW 3=6: 3 cylinder 2 stroke! |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| westernair wrote: |
| A suburu motor requires cutting and extensive plumbing. I use a 912e motor I stroked to a 2277, that damn thing (in a single cab) will carry 2000 lbs of landscaping material at 65 miles an hour down the freeway for and hour in the summer without even getting hot. |
Well, that's sorta exactly what I said! A 2 liter type 4, better if stroked. Nice for moderate power increases. I really think 120hp is the upper limit if longevity and driveability are important. I sure hope you didn't waste the 912E sheet metal- it's worth a fortune!
What do you use for exhaust? Do you have heat?
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| arthurnugen wrote: |
| davelarue wrote: |
| a_67vdub wrote: |
You can have a machine shop check the case when you've completely disassebled the engine. If your engine is old, then you will probably need machine work. I would just buy a new case, they are pretty cheap.
Edit: Actually, you haven't told us a budget. That should be your starting point in deciding what you can do. |
My budget is around $500. |
Uh-Oh. A new case will cost you around that much. If you plan on only spending $500, better plan to do all of the work yourself and study, study, study! |
Does it really cost $500 to machine my old case, or to buy a brand new case? |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12569
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| davelarue wrote: |
| a_67vdub wrote: |
You can have a machine shop check the case when you've completely disassebled the engine. If your engine is old, then you will probably need machine work. I would just buy a new case, they are pretty cheap.
Edit: Actually, you haven't told us a budget. That should be your starting point in deciding what you can do. |
My budget is around $500. |
Take your "budget" and buy a rebuilt 40 horse long block. 
My last engine, an 1835, built from an existing 69mm crank & rods (a savings of $200 to $300), cost me $1500 and I did all the work myself! 
I'm now building a stroker, over $500 already into it and have yet to buy the jugs, cam, lifters, and anything else I may want to put into it. 
_________________
Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12569
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| davelarue wrote: |
| Does it really cost $500 to machine my old case, or to buy a brand new case? |
A brand new case sells for right around $300 stock. Add more $$$ if you want it bored for larger jugs, clearanced for larger stroke, full flowed, etc. I got one already but might use it for the crank off the 1835 I just retired, then buy a bored & clearanced new case for the stroker which are around $450. 
_________________
Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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arthurnugen
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005
Posts: 3082
Location: The PNW, where "going green" means rolling with moss.
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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The 1776 I built a few years ago (the same damn one that leaks in the other post) cost me around $1750, all new, and the only work I did not do myself was the machining for the 90.5 cylinders. I agree with pyr0man, buy a used longblock or save up more for that motor budget. Hell, if your engine runs, drive it until it doesn't! 
_________________
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Lawyers don't deserve buses. |
| zozo wrote: |
| Don't worry too much. You can always trust a lawyer. |
ALWAYS WEAR STEEL-TOE BOOTS IN THE GARAGE!
1965 Bus (Riviera camper)
1972 Bug 'vert
1967 Bug sunroof
1961 Ghia 'vert
1957 DKW 3=6: 3 cylinder 2 stroke! |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thing is, that i doesn't run. I have a 1300cc currently in my bus....
I'll take the case to the shop and see what they say. If its fixable, then thats that, but if not, then i'll buy a new case. Budget is prioritized on the bus these days (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=171509)
1300cc is a little low don't u think.....
I mean, the bus can barely go forward.... |
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arthurnugen
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005
Posts: 3082
Location: The PNW, where "going green" means rolling with moss.
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, 1300cc is a little weak, but at least it moves it! It's not like you will ever have a bus that can corner on rails and do 100mph safely anyway. We love 'em, but they are still just bricks on wheels.
I have a 1600DP in my bus, and I can cruise at 65 mph no problems. if I had my choice though, I would go with a 1600 SP with stock dizzy for good low end torque and good gas mileage, or even a 1776 SP.
_________________
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Lawyers don't deserve buses. |
| zozo wrote: |
| Don't worry too much. You can always trust a lawyer. |
ALWAYS WEAR STEEL-TOE BOOTS IN THE GARAGE!
1965 Bus (Riviera camper)
1972 Bug 'vert
1967 Bug sunroof
1961 Ghia 'vert
1957 DKW 3=6: 3 cylinder 2 stroke! |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12569
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| arthurnugen wrote: |
| Hell, if your engine runs, drive it until it doesn't! |
 ^ ^
I've tried that too, but the mess simply becomes unbearable!
BTW, I've previously put $650 on a case that turned out cracked!  As just stated, I decided to just drive it until it exploded but the washing of the motor on a weekly basis got old. Then when I got my "pretty" painted bus the mess coming out the back was not acceptable so I built the 1835 using a brand new case!
_________________
Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise. |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| arthurnugen wrote: |
| Hell, if your engine runs, drive it until it doesn't! |
^ ^
I've tried that too, but the mess simply becomes unbearable!
BTW, I've previously put $650 on a case that turned out cracked! As just stated, I decided to just drive it until it exploded but the washing of the motor on a weekly basis got old. Then when I got my "pretty" painted bus the mess coming out the back was not acceptable so I built the 1835 using a brand new case! |
My friend's engine exploded on the freeway. There was almost nothing left of it....
Car cost a lot to tow away too....
So, ok, i'll save up a little and get a good engine. |
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Dave24
Samba Hack Purist
Joined: April 14, 2004
Posts: 7442
Location: Hablamos Ingles, So. Cal.
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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So we've gone from what porsche engine will fit in your bus, to rebuilding your 1500 on a $500 budget?. I mean no offense, but thats a huge swing. You could not do a porsche engine conversion or type 4, of any type, for $500. So I'm not sure why you posed the orig. question, if the budget is truly $500 that you have to work with.
Even doing the work yourself, I think you'll go way outside that budget in short order on a complete rebuild of your 1500. I'd say you need to re-think either you're budget, or the type of rebuild/engine you can really afford to do. As suggested by the others, a rebuilt 1600 long block MAY fit your budget/needs. Again, no offense intended, just being realistic. |
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Dave24
Samba Hack Purist
Joined: April 14, 2004
Posts: 7442
Location: Hablamos Ingles, So. Cal.
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| arthurnugen wrote: |
| if I had my choice though, I would go with a 1600 SP with stock dizzy for good low end torque and good gas mileage. |
1600 s/p is what I run, for those reasons (and the reliability). |
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davelarue
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 400
Location: Tacoma, WA / Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave24 wrote: |
So we've gone from what porsche engine will fit in your bus, to rebuilding your 1500 on a $500 budget?. I mean no offense, but thats a huge swing. You could not do a porsche engine conversion or type 4, of any type, for $500. So I'm not sure why you posed the orig. question, if the budget is truly $500 that you have to work with.
Even doing the work yourself, I think you'll go way outside that budget in short order on a complete rebuild of your 1500. I'd say you need to re-think either you're budget, or the type of rebuild/engine you can really afford to do. As suggested by the others, a rebuilt 1600 long block MAY fit your budget/needs. Again, no offense intended, just being realistic. |
Sure, but in case i came across a Porsche engine, i just wanted to know if it would fit my car. Sometimes there are some really good deals in the local classifieds, or paper....it wan't ment as a discussion, just a small question. As for the 1500cc. I'll look around for a 1600cc long block. That sounds great.
Thanks you all! Now i know which Porsche engine to look for, and what to do with my engine. not bad for one thread 
D |
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Major Woody
Samba Enigma
Joined: December 04, 2002
Posts: 9016
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Let us know what kind of Porsche engine you "come across", please. |
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