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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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 Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mcsyncro wrote: |
as most of you know, i put a 20v 5cylinder turbo in my westy syncro,
it had all the power i needed, but it got 16 mpg putting around in town, or
going 85 on the freeway..just my 2 cents. |
MC Syncro, I've always admired your 3B conversion. Using the rotated NA 20V intake manifold was truly a stroke of genius. One question I've meant to ask you is how much more you inclined the engine to get it to clear the lid. Did you do any sump or oil pump pickup mods, or are they all stock?
Thanks,
David |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Think Zetec--
Easiest transplant with the most bang for the Buck---
The TIICO set up ws the first attempt to get some half assed dependable power in a Vanagon with not all that successful results.
The distribtuor (Peter) is half assed, and his support sytem really stinks.
If your looking for some dependable power take a real close look at the Zetec .
Forget about the $5.00 a gallon TDI's, and the Audi set up.
They don't even come close to the HP output possible with a couple of performance tweaks on the Zetec world Ford Focus engine.
How could you overlook a 6 wire installation process?
It sure can't get any easier than this---
_________________
T.K.
Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Outback Kampers
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Think Zetec--
Easiest transplant with the most bang for the Buck---
The TIICO set up ws the first attempt to get some half assed dependable power in a Vanagon with not all that successful results.
The distribtuor (Peter) is half assed, and his support sytem really stinks.
If your looking for some dependable power take a real close look at the Zetec .
Forget about the $5.00 a gallon TDI's, and the Audi set up.
They don't even come close to the HP outout possible with a couple of performance tweaks on the Zetek world Ford Focus engine.
How could you overlook a 6 wire installation process?
It sure can't get any easier than this--- |
TK, sure, the Zetec is a nice conversion, well done, but the TDI stock has more torque. And 'a couple easy tweaks' on the TDI push it up to 130 hp, 250 ft/lbs torque reliably while still getting 28 mpg (something the Zetec can never achieve). In a Syncro, off-road, there is no contest, the TDI is far better suited--you can crawl over things at near idle speed, while the Zetec revs and slips the clutch just to make enough torque to do the same. My TDI conversions have just one wire to make 'em run (plus of course two temp sensors and the glow plug bus) So, four. 
BTW, diesel is close to $4/gal most places now. |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Any oil burner will put out more torque than a gasser---always has, always will.
Inch for cubic inch the gasser is capable of more horses within the same engine dimensional size.
The Zetec is capable of 750 HP.
I do know that ---
Like I've said before the kid on the next block has a cranked up Focus turning in the low 12's.
The oil burner won't come even close.
Diesel juice around here Karl is still between $4.75 to $4.89--pretty pricey.
I'm going to forget the Midships small block Chevy for my 89 Carat.
I'm looking for a low miled Zetec for a swap right now.
The kid behind me will show me how to get some easy Ponies outa it.
Bring your high torque oil burner Karl--and your title.
A little torque vs HP contest.
I'll be happy to drive you to the Silver Dog station for the ride back east.
Did you see the posting from Darryl at AA Transaxle?
He seems to think highly of the Zetec swap he just got done with.
I think it's the most bang for the buck your gonna find.
Forget the phehistoric TIICO idea.
Here's a copy of his post ---
Bostig conversion in my Westy... www.bostig.com
How Sweet it Is...That little hummer just purrrs..Quiet..Smooth...Gutsy. Can you see me smilin'...
A total piece of cake to do it all..The Bostig kit is so complete that most any rookie can do it without any special tools or knowledge. The Boys from Boston are constantly tweaking and improving as they go. Talking guys through their issues gives them feedback so they can improve the process...And it works...(can you tell I am a fan??) Video step by step instructions and Brady or Jim are always on the other end of the phone line.
1st test drive...drove just like my WBXer...hmmm..Oh yeah, I only had half throttle..Adjust cable...
2nd drive..Holiest Cow..Mo' Power and the little Ferd motor loves to wind up. Don't notice the revs and it seems natural after a short while to not have to worry about revving it up. Did I say smooth??? Did I say quiet??? Like any modern DOHC eng, they get their peak power at higher RPM, and it pulls great over 3K but will also accel in 4th from 30MPH without complaining..
Can't wait till I get the Turbo to stick on it ( in Oct hopefully...) Stock trans gearing is perfect as it is. So no regearing needed. Runs like the 2.2 Subies I have driven only I believe its a MUCH easier job to convert with the Bostig kit.There are many low mile motors available too..Mine has 30K on it and many have found 10 or 15K engines.. I have the original 195/14's on it and they work well. Fits under the deck lid (barely) Plenty of room on the sides and front. A bit tight at the rear, but the Lic plate access makes it tolerable. Comes with a scan tool to program and check data from the brain box or to send the datalogs to Jim for review (hardest part for me) Got to finish some detail work and tidy things up a bit, but after somewhere around 20 to 25 hrs of actual work..she's a happy camper...Me too..Gotta love the choices we have for our babies...
Daryl of AA Transaxle
(425) 788-4070
aatransaxle.com
_________________
T.K. |
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Outback Kampers
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Terry Terry Terry.... HP numbers don't mean crap without usable torque. A turbo Zetec, modified in racing form, yeah, will make 750...maybe, but not for a couple hundred thousand miles.
If ya wanna 'race' (but why?) let's find a nice long grade on a mountain highway and lock the trannies in fourth gear. THEN we'll see why 'torque rules' in a loaded Westy / Syncro. 
Next trip out west I'll visit Daryl...in a customer's Syncro Westy TDI I am currently building. It's nice to have choices, but for where I am traveling around the world, the mechanical-pump TDI is the best choice for me and the 5500-lb Syncro expedition camper I'm building.
Oh, and BTW, what car won the Lemans 24-hours the past few years? Ford? Ferrari? Porsche? Nah.
Last edited by Outback Kampers on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChesterKV
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2005
Posts: 1725
Location: El Cerrito, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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IN my opinion the following motors are best.
The Subaru 2.2/2.5 and Zetec 2.0 are neck and neck but with different "philosophies" so they're kinda an apples and oranges comparison. The Subarus are all over the place meaning you can scrounge a local yard, order some parts online (or make them yourself), and do it for less money (assuming your personal hourly rate is worthless) than a Zetec; however it will take a lot of work to make it happen. Or you can drive it to a shop that does conversions and $ 9,000 later you're done.
The Zetec is done.... done... and done... for you. Buy the complete kit sans motor, find motor at your local yard for something like $ 49.99 and slap it together. Done.
Based on my own experience, online reading, and throwing caution to the wind, I would say the Zetec conversion can be done in HALF the time of a "normal" Subaru installation. The only tie would be from Hans and his turnkey kit available from Vanaru.
A very strong second , NO, the third philosophy in the metaphysical world of Vanagon engine conversions would be diesel. I believe once the Subaru 2.0 turbo diesels show up that will push it into the "FIRST PLACE" category for me. That is, assuming the engine can be made to run without the factory CANBUS system.
The Zetec wins the installation race, no question. Bostig made it stupid simple to install. There is only one Subaru "turn-key" installation available and that is from Hans at Vanaru as I have previously mentioned. However, it's around $ 8,000 including shipping. However, it only has you connect FOUR wires so it wins the GREAT WIRE WARS battle. 
- Chester
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way.  |
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Williamtaylor33
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
The TIICO set up ws the first attempt to get some half assed dependable power in a Vanagon with not all that successful results.
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I think this pretty much sums up this thread....
TIICO was just ok. But the choices we have available today makes the TIICO obsolete.
The bostig, TDI, or subie conversions win hands down.
And for the record....For the price of a Subie turn-key I could have a bostig conversion with an almost new motor (w/ a turbo) and still have enough cash leftover to get a tranny rebuild.
_________________
89 Bostig powered syncro westy |
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MrPolak
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 1385
Location: AG ,atnaltA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, man..  I just slobbered all over my shirt...
That is a sweet looking kit!
I've been a big fan of the smooth 5-cyl engines. I sold my '88 Audi 90 with a 2.3L 5cyl and 425,000 miles on the clock. My engine only saw regular maintenance. |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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<<Terry Terry Terry.... HP numbers don't mean crap without usable torque. A turbo Zetec, modified in racing form, yeah, will make 750...maybe, but not for a couple hundred thousand miles.>>
I agree, and disagree here Karl.
Look at any Jap crap and they go big miles at big RPM.
They all take a big liken' and keep on ticken'.
Time's are big time different then they used to be--
The tighter you wind them the better they like it.
This does amaze the heck outa me.
You forget that I am more prone to Limey bikes than almost anything else---
The Japs lapped them all 4 or 5 times and kept right on going--
Harleys are in thre same boat.
The stuff with overhead cams , short stroke, and superior metalurgy won the big race in longevity.
<<If ya wanna 'race' (but why?) let's find a nice long grade on a mountain highway and lock the trannies in fourth gear. THEN we'll see why 'torque rules' in a loaded Westy / Syncro.>>
Donner Pass outa Reno would be a good grade to have a contest at.
First Van to Sacremento wins--
I'm in---
<<but for where I am traveling around the world, the mechanical-pump TDI is the best choice for me and the 5500-lb Syncro expedition camper I'm building.>>
Alright then--with this I will agree with.
If I was hauling ass or anything en-mass cross country, up the hollar's and down the waller's I too would have a oil burner--but with a few more cubes---
The story used to be that NOTHING beats cubic inches--period.
Until the rice rocket, short stroke, dual overhead cam, turbo'ed & innercooled ( I am not going to get into a NOX conversation--that's cheatin')
engines started eatin up big cubes, big time.
The Zetec engine is a world engine that is not nothing really new--it's just been introduced a few years ago to us here in the Ford Focus.
It's been raced and flogged big time over on the other side of the big pond for a long time, and has proved itself to be very forgiving when beat on hard--especially when the HP limits are maxed out.
I think the Zetec up or down a hill, pushing that 5000 lbs Vanagon when opened up to --let's say 350 hp, would do well, and give you a run for your money Karl.
I am pretty confident that it would stay together for as long as the oil burner too--
I do know this --the parts are a heck of a bunch cheaper for the 4 banger FOMCO than any VW product, if in fact I happen to scattered something--
( and in no way shape of form am I a Ford lover---NUPE--)
This engine is something Ford picked up in Deutschland.
<<Oh, and BTW, what car won the Lemans 24-hours the past few years? Ford? Ferrari? Porsche? Nah.>>
I know for sure it wasn't a TDI VW Vanagon Syncro---
Double LOL Karl---
Musta been a Chevy---
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T.K. |
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Outback Kampers
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
<<If ya wanna 'race' (but why?) let's find a nice long grade on a mountain highway and lock the trannies in fourth gear. THEN we'll see why 'torque rules' in a loaded Westy / Syncro.>>
Donner Pass outa Reno would be a good grade to have a contest at.
First Van to Sacremento wins--
I'm in---
<<Oh, and BTW, what car won the Lemans 24-hours the past few years? Ford? Ferrari? Porsche? Nah.>>
I know for sure it wasn't a TDI VW Vanagon Syncro---
Double LOL Karl---
Musta been a Chevy--- |
It's always fun poking at you Terry. Lemme get finished up here on the work and I'll meet you at Donner's pass in late winter. If you have a Zetec by then. I'll be loaded down to around 6000 lbs. My guess is you'll travel lighter, but that's ok.
Lemans, Sebring? Past couple years? AUDI TDI ! Now, Peugeot DI diesels are running as the only real competition for Audi. Got Google? Read all about it.  |
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STEPHENLAY
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2008
Posts: 94
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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My 2002 TDI golf was really great. I love that motor. My 2004 Subaru XT (2.5 turbo) is great. I love that motor in a different way.
My 1984 Westfalia is great. I love that motor in a very different way (it runs)
At the cost of conversions my next motor is a 1.9 WBX. I just need it to get me to camp. |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| TSR53 wrote: |
[ok, guess the mods need to change and update the thread title (check w/OP first of course) - as I've hijacked the daylights outta this one  ]
"Tiico 2.0L engine conversion "and other crafty well installed German engine options" - What do you think?
Yaaah! OMG mcsyncro is still here!!! Kewl. Yes, based on all the photos I've seen, your install was/is/still is the absolute hands down kewlest and trickest custom fabrication ever of an Audi 5-cyl 20v turbo into a Vanagon - EVER.
16mgs? that's it? Not any surprise, there. My '95 Audi S6 with a slightly different cut of a 20v turbo (AAN) is only rated 17-23 mpg. I routinely see 17-18mpgs with it. I get more of a kick out of driving my uber pokey Westfalia RS Transporter 2.1 litre boxer that gets the same mpgs. |
Beautiful work! Is that your van that i see as an Avatar? It look nice, any picture online, of your van and the engine.... just curious! I always like to see nice vans.
How is the power of the 20V engine? I'm not a very big fan of German engineering (everyone knows that!) but still, i like your conversion and if i had to choose a German engine, it would probably be something like that.
I have a friend a customer who did one many years ago, he is gonna show me picture tomorrow....
Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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Ryan Alfonso
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just wanted to share a pic and a video of my TiiCo conversion... installed in 2001, now has about 75k miles.
Vid is here:
Link
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Beetsport 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2005
Posts: 478
Location: Sacramento, CA
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LTBeck41
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Jacksonville FL
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: TIICO doing OK for now...but... |
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| What would you guys suggest I do if the TIICO I have in my '84 2WD Westy dies? Can another VW in line 4 block/Head be installed in the TIICO's place or should I go to an entirely differnt engine? |
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Outback Kampers
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: TIICO doing OK for now...but... |
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| LTBeck41 wrote: |
| What would you guys suggest I do if the TIICO I have in my '84 2WD Westy dies? Can another VW in line 4 block/Head be installed in the TIICO's place or should I go to an entirely differnt engine? |
1.8 and 2.0 liter 8-valve engines (long blocks and short) are still available from one of my suppliers.
_________________
Karl Mullendore
1990 Syncro 16" sunroof Reimo highroof conversion
1990 Westy Multivan 112i automatic
1992 LT31 Karmann Distance Wide 'La Tortuga'
2014 Touareg X TDI |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: TIICO doing OK for now...but... |
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| LTBeck41 wrote: |
| What would you guys suggest I do if the TIICO I have in my '84 2WD Westy dies? Can another VW in line 4 block/Head be installed in the TIICO's place or should I go to an entirely differnt engine? |
Buy mine, then you have spares for everything! (except valves) Screamin' deal!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=730020
Tom
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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tangstadt
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008
Posts: 90
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Man! I am really amazed at the slamming of the Autobahn society on this thread. Steve and his crew have been great for me. I have one of his inline conversions. I have 6000 mi on it in 4 months, he replaced my entire suspension and my van was so rusty that literally every bolt had to be cut off as he replaced the control arms, A arms, linkage etc. with parts from a newer not/less rusty carat. His Prices are CHEAP compared to what everyone pays out west for work (being a left coast transplant). Oh and he's pretty much it in the Atlanta area for working on VWs. He's a nice guy, bottom line. |
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Outback Kampers
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2345
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.roadhaus.com/shops_search_map.php?state_id=10
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Karl Mullendore
1990 Syncro 16" sunroof Reimo highroof conversion
1990 Westy Multivan 112i automatic
1992 LT31 Karmann Distance Wide 'La Tortuga'
2014 Touareg X TDI |
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Alaric.H
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: Sandy Springs GA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a 89 syncro westey with a tico in it all ready it lasted about 10 days.
So I waited and waited and finally got it to westey ventures and had Karl
put it in a 2wd westey and it was much better I still have it lowered and 15in
rims and for around town I like it better.I Went with a diesel on Karl's advise and it is great 3000rpm at 70. A lot of low end toque.
I have driven two others a SVX and Bostic in a syncro and they were both great. If you live by DC come on over and drive them too see what you think |
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