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id
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Victoria, BC
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 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Someone asked at one point on a personal message about how much this project had cost me. I guessed between $1500 and $2000. This list below is my summary of costs for this project. It was a good guess...
Exhaust pipes 277.4
Gasket set 116.02
Heads, coolant hoses, thermostat housing 1353
Supplies 16.98
Tools 87.31
Supplies 17.83
Supplies 34.34
Oil Pump 64.69
Supplies 9.81
Rear mainseal 44.8
Oil breather hose 11.42
Plugs, Oil filter etc. 54.45
Total 2088.05
_________________
'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| id wrote: |
Someone asked at one point on a personal message about how much this project had cost me. I guessed between $1500 and $2000. This list below is my summary of costs for this project. It was a good guess...
Exhaust pipes 277.4
Gasket set 116.02
Heads, coolant hoses, thermostat housing 1353
Supplies 16.98
Tools 87.31
Supplies 17.83
Supplies 34.34
Oil Pump 64.69
Supplies 9.81
Rear mainseal 44.8
Oil breather hose 11.42
Plugs, Oil filter etc. 54.45
Total 2088.05 |
And how many hours... 
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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id
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ben,
How many hours? I'd guess 50.
Thanks for the tip about the oil pressure sender. I'll have to order one up...
_________________
'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| id wrote: |
Someone asked at one point on a personal message about how much this project had cost me. I guessed between $1500 and $2000. This list below is my summary of costs for this project. It was a good guess...
Exhaust pipes 277.4
Gasket set 116.02
Heads, coolant hoses, thermostat housing 1353
Supplies 16.98
Tools 87.31
Supplies 17.83
Supplies 34.34
Oil Pump 64.69
Supplies 9.81
Rear mainseal 44.8
Oil breather hose 11.42
Plugs, Oil filter etc. 54.45
Total 2088.05 |
No rings? Rods?Rod bearings? Your right there_____why not?
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No rings? Rods?Rod bearings? Your right there_____why not? |
Why do so... not the same money involve at all! Ring could have been nice, but only for the top ring that sometime break in 2. Again way more time and risk for someone that is not a full time mechanic.
Anyway, in general, if rings are out of spec piston and sleeve are also.
I'm often hard on the boxer engine but the short block is very strong .
Head are the main problem.
Also, it's a got thing to leave the pistons like that, new one would bring the compression higher, that could be critical for the botom end.
Playing in the case mean there is good chance that a line bore / align may be needed (mostly on 1.9L)... again, not the same time and money involve.
I would instead suggest 4 rebuilt / new injectors and a regulator. That would take care of a lot of FI problem.
So, take that 50 hours (25-30) for a guy like me, add pistons/sleeve and a good botom end rebuilt... well, your over 5-6 k easy for any customer.
Still, no exhaust system.. what else...
That is why i went Subi in the shop.
I put a nice 07 engine and i'll see the customers in 10 years... at least for the engine
Cheers, Ben
ps.: Nice job ID
.
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ftp2leta wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No rings? Rods?Rod bearings? Your right there_____why not? |
Why do so... not the same money involve at all! Ring could have been nice, but only for the top ring that sometime break in 2. Again way more time and risk for someone that is not a full time mechanic.
Anyway, in general, if rings are out of spec piston and sleeve are also.
I'm often hard on the boxer engine but the short block is very strong .
Head are the main problem.
Also, it's a got thing to leave the pistons like that, new one would bring the compression higher, that could be critical for the botom end.
Playing in the case mean there is good chance that a line bore / align may be needed (mostly on 1.9L)... again, not the same time and money involve.
I would instead suggest 4 rebuilt / new injectors and a regulator. That would take care of a lot of FI problem.
So, take that 50 hours (25-30) for a guy like me, add pistons/sleeve and a good botom end rebuilt... well, your over 5-6 k easy for any customer.
Still, no exhaust system.. what else...
That is why i went Subi in the shop.
I put a nice 07 engine and i'll see the customers in 10 years... at least for the engine
Cheers, Ben
ps.: Nice job ID
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With all due respect: I didn't ask you. 
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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The D-day has now come and gone and some questions still remain. I was able to turn the key yesterday afternoon and have the Green Dragon return to life. However, it knocks at low rpms, backfires when coasting, and the red temperature light on the gauge is blinking steadily at times.
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Sounds like you need to pay close attention to the ignition timing, for the knocking and backfiring, and release the air bubble that is probably trapped at the top of your radiator.
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| I did sit with the engine at 2000 rpm for twenty minutes to start with. |
That's kind of funny. You only need to do that to break in a new cam and lifters. No harm done, though.
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| The Vanagon book that comes with the van says that insufficient tightness on the V-belts can be a cause of the red blinking light. I'll have to check this. |
Well, that may be true, but not for the PS belt. The water pump/alt belt could do that if it was pretty loose. But overtightening can harm the water pump and alt bearings. The proper tension on any belt is when it can be deflected 1/2" by firm finger pressure on the midpoint of the belt's longest freespan.
Use some of that Gasgacinch to dress the belts. It works great (says so right on the can!) Just swab it on both friction faces of the belt while the engine is idling. A nice coating of rubber cement gives belts terrific traction without the need for overtightening, and helps keep the belt from drying and cracking. The heat from slippage is hell on belts.
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Idle control re-connected. Now this was disconnected by the PO when I got the van. Is this the likely culprit for the backfires and knocking?
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No.
Great job. <applause applause> I'll bet you're feeling the glow of satisfaction, for a job well done.
Take Ben's advice, though. It's a very good idea to replace both OP switches before they start leaking, and to be assured that they open and close when they're supposed to.
Oh, BillW, he did do the rods, rod bearings, and rings. I can see how you might have missed it: that page of this epic thread was so long ago!
Nice job, id! and a very useful thread for anyone wanting to take this on for themselves.
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is death to doctrine. |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well my Droogies, Appypollyloggies 
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| With all due respect: I didn't ask you. |
Did you do your bottom end? Yourself? Where are all the pictures???
If yes, what wa the cost?
I have not answered that for him but mostly for others, so DIY people can understand the cost and the work involve. I still believe in DIY folks.... and have great respect for them. That is why i spend so much time on my site.
So don't piss me off bro.... I have been there to many time on other list / forum. I spent 10 hours a day on Vanagon, 7 days a week. Believe me, i know my stuff.
I have left the Vanagon Mailling list because i got tired uf stupid remark of jalous people that have no life... and also because of ignorant English spoken folks who where continuously bashing my poor English ... i can do the same here very quickly.
The corruptor.
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Eeeeasy there, big fella.....
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is death to doctrine. |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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"The corruptor." "If an irrection lasts for more than 4 hours"
Only 9 years?I RETIRED from shop time 14 years ago. Been driving the same Vanagon ___Before you discoverd Power Rangers. Add 10+ years shop time on ANYTHING VW BUILT. ______________
P.S. Only a noob counts rebuilds 
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill W wrote: |
"The corruptor." "If an irrection lasts for more than 4 hours"
Only 9 years?I RETIRED from shop time 14 years ago. Been driving the same Vanagon ___Before you discoverd Power Rangers. Add 10+ years shop time on ANYTHING VW BUILT. ______________
P.S. Only a noob counts rebuilds |
Ok, i got you brave old men, you win... i'm out of this thread.
Have fun
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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id
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the tips ten cent,
Funny thing Ben I was biking home from work tonight (my daily driver) and I was thinkning about how I need to return the rods for the core 100 at VC and then I thought I must have lost that receipt because I didn't inlcude it in th price list.
Anyway I've got to have a look at the ignition timing and the air bubble at the top of my rad
I wouldn't have done the rings/rods/bearings if I hadn't snapped an oil ring. ('cause I'm new at this wrench thing)
I didn't touch the bottom end because that's way past my personal comfort zone.
I am happy that the van is alive again. I just wish that it was running smoothly. I think I just may take this to a mechanic to get the timing tuned, because I don't have the tools for the job...
_________________
'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL |
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kirsplat
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2008
Posts: 412
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to give a HUGE thanks Id. This past Friday I got back my rebuilt 2.1L long block and this is my first engine rebuild. The whole weekend I have had the Bentley book and Samba on my laptop side by side and have used your thread the most. I just got it all connected and tomorrow I'll turn the key and hope for the best.
Here are a few pictures from Saturday and Sunday. I'll post the rest a little later.
And thanks tencent for all the priceless information!
the engine stripped.
and back from Northwest Connecting Rod....thanks Jerry!
another shot of it dirty
cleaned up with the intake on (all new fuel lines and water pump)
and a shot with the alternator on
I got it back in the rig tonight and hooked up electrical, coolant hoses, power steering pump.
Tomorrow I'll get the exhaust completed, fill it with oil (Royal Purple 20-50), fill it with coolant, and start 'er up!
I made up the coolant bleeder tube that Andrew Libby designed and try it out tomorrow.
So thanks again for the great thread and all the pictures, They helped me immensely!
on the road again, I just can't wait to get on the road again!
Chris
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86 Syncro|EJ253|Carat |
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id
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Kirsplat,
Glad all the picture taking and other people's input was useful. I learn so much on the Samba. Just happy if I can give back a little.
Good luck with the re-assembly 
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4570
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| id wrote: |
The D-day has now come and gone and some questions still remain. I was able to turn the key yesterday afternoon and have the Green Dragon return to life. However, it knocks at low rpms, backfires when coasting, and the red temperature light on the gauge is blinking steadily at times.
I did sit with the engine at 2000 rpm for twenty minutes to start with. Now I want to get some city kilometers on it, prior to the highway miles necessary to go camping.
Here are some action shots from the final re-assembly this weekend, in case anyone is interested, or finds them useful...
Shot of a top trans-block connection bolt. Had no washer. Is this normal?
The electrical connection at the bottom rear of the engine
And the one on the bottom left side
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WRT the washer on the engine mount bolts: no,not correct; they always have wavy washers when new.
Your backfiring MIGHT be due to a leak in the exhaust. You can sometimes find such a leak by laying underneath the car with the engine idling and feeling around the pipes. NOT touching them, just feeling for the jet coming out. Or, if you have and Ultrasonic Sniffer, you can pinpoint it quite easliy. WTF is an Ultrasonic Sniffer? See if anyone knows.
BTW, VERY nice pictures. I especially liked the above one of the rear HP oil pressure sensor. How did you take them? Camera, settings, etc.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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id
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Al,
Thanks for the information. I'll get some wavy washers for the trans conx. The Green Dragon is going to the vet tomorrow for a final check up. Hopefully a simle timing adjustment and we are on the road.
The photos are taken with a digital camera (not sure what kind) using a "close up macro" setting. The shots were taken outside on a sunny day. The flash is obviously working.
Other than that nothing special. Given the amount of photo work that went on on the project, my skills have improved a whole bunch (as a photographer, not necessarily as a mechanic)
Of note, to post on the Samaba gallery I have to cut down the number of pixels a long way, so the resolution is even better than what you see:)
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL |
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stephanhipwell
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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hi i have a 2.1 that i am building up for my bug, could you tell me where you got your stat housing and sealants from?
thanks
Stephan |
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