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vwsplitman
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 322
Location: Plymouth, CT
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Window felts |
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| Does anyone know of a source for split window bug door window felts. This would be for the early splits and not the Zwitters. Chuck P |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9405
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ricardo in Argentina makes an excellent reproduction rubber insert Chuck, and Restoration Specialties sells a black, UV tolerant flocking that can be glues on. I have restored a couple using these materials, they come out real nice. e-mail me at [email protected] if you want more details. I may have some sets of this material already here at home....
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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splitmike
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 510
Location: Splitsville
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I got mine from
http://www.kaefer-nostalgie.com/
they were alright I guess....the only ones I ever installed so I have nothing to compare to.
I will say that I do dislike the installation process greatly -it was a bitch- clamps and glue and all.....  |
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lurkinstock
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: n. ga.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| michael schramm wrote: |
I got mine from
http://www.kaefer-nostalgie.com/
they were alright I guess....the only ones I ever installed so I have nothing to compare to.
I will say that I do dislike the installation process greatly -it was a bitch- clamps and glue and all..... |
Yeah Mike
I know what you mean.  I got mine there too. Kaefer-nostalgia makes a good product, but detailed instructions would help though. Let the glue set-up alittle will help alot. Other wise it gets pretty messy.
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" Southern Comfort Vintage Volks "
**The Grand Ole Dubs of the South**
52 split
59 single cab |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9405
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| lurkinstock wrote: |
| michael schramm wrote: |
I got mine from
http://www.kaefer-nostalgie.com/
they were alright I guess....the only ones I ever installed so I have nothing to compare to.
I will say that I do dislike the installation process greatly -it was a bitch- clamps and glue and all..... |
Yeah Mike
I know what you mean. I got mine there too. Kaefer-nostalgia makes a good product, but detailed instructions would help though. Let the glue set-up alittle will help alot. Other wise it gets pretty messy. |
I made some 1/4" thick masonite "forms" that get clamped into the channel after the felt is glued in. The trick is insuring that the felt is "seated" into the bottom of the channel such that the window edge can fully go in. It worked out very well, I can post a pic tonight. I think there are 3 or 4 pieces that go into the curved section, matching the curvature and get clamped in with spring jaw clamps.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| lurkinstock wrote: |
| michael schramm wrote: |
I got mine from
http://www.kaefer-nostalgie.com/
they were alright I guess....the only ones I ever installed so I have nothing to compare to.
I will say that I do dislike the installation process greatly -it was a bitch- clamps and glue and all..... |
Yeah Mike
I know what you mean. I got mine there too. Kaefer-nostalgia makes a good product, but detailed instructions would help though. Let the glue set-up alittle will help alot. Other wise it gets pretty messy. |
I made some 1/4" thick masonite "forms" that get clamped into the channel after the felt is glued in. The trick is insuring that the felt is "seated" into the bottom of the channel such that the window edge can fully go in. It worked out very well, I can post a pic tonight. I think there are 3 or 4 pieces that go into the curved section, matching the curvature and get clamped in with spring jaw clamps. |
The Restoration Specialties material is usually stocked here but we're out at the moment, and I'm trying to decide if I will restock it or not. I have no idea what the KN material is like but would like to see a picture of it up close and its texture/profile.
The RS material is good quality in general, but only somewhat of a match to the original material. It is however nearly 2x the thickness of the original material and requires some working/setting in time for sure to get the original windows to work and insert well into this material that rests inside the channel.
Yes you could work up some masonite forms to both assemble the material and to "pre-coax" the fibers a bit, but another faster faster/easier option might be to just use a spare piece of original window glass (or I have to assume your windows are out of the car when you are doing this work anyways), or you could even borrow glass to do the same thing.
The NOS window channels on my car actually reveal that the original material is very close to a tight knit velour like woven cloth material. The RS material is referred to as "cat whiskers', as thats what it looks like, and how its woven in rows, its basically what antique cars of a similar period used, however its pattern and texture is noticeably different, and if you don't install it nice and straight it can appear to look crooked since the whiskers are again is some semblance of a row pattern, can be tricky once you have your contact cement in place so definitely focus on laying in this material straight if you are choosing this material.
If I were to restore another set of channels at some point I would tend to source a more commonly available black velour from your local fabric store, then seal the backing lightly to help prevent fabric pull-off/wear with perhaps a spray on urethane which will remain flexible afterward. Then I would seal/waterproof it a few times (once it is installed) with one of the more effective Gore-like sprays that you can purchase at an REI or EMS outdoor store. Some of these sprays also provide some level of UV resistance as well. The difference in expected life of one vs the other would be negligible in my opinion but you'd have a much more original look and function for quite a few years. |
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vwsplitman
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 322
Location: Plymouth, CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all of the info guys. ChuckP |
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Rhodrich
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2001
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm doing this job at the moment, and I have to say, it is a complete b*tch.
I'm using plain old velvet fabric from a fabric store. I'm glad I am, as I've mucked it up once, and had to start again.
The glue I'm using is spray carpet clue, and I'm wedging the fabric into the channel using wooden clothes pegs. Not ideal, but it seems to work. One side done, other side still to do. |
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virtanen
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I have made those for 3 splits by the same method.
At the first metal frames need some attention. Sometimes welding and straightening. After that cleaning and painting (originally not painted at all!).
I have collected ok rubbers from spare frames and clued them in, it can also use short pieces, fabric covers them. I have used good quality velvet, which pattern and thickness looks very similar as original. I have used original door window to push fabric to bottom, works fine.
The first set up has been in use 8 years, still in as new condition. |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9405
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure you use a UV tolerant fabric if you use a velour. More often than not, I have seen "restos" badly faded within a month or two, and it looks bad. Check with an upholstery supply place for UV tolerant fabrics.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Rhodrich
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2001
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:22 am Post subject: |
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My car has been laid up over the winter, and I tackled the other side. Major problem! All seemed to be going well until I put the channel in, and tried putting up the window.
It was not sliding well at the top, and I pushed too hard on the winder. Nasty sound of metal breaking, and the winder now spins round and round. Took it out today, and I've taken a tooth off the regulator.
I give up. This is the nastiest job I've ever had to do on a bug, ever. All that glue, and it still doesn't work, and I've bust the regulator.
I need a new regulator now for the passenger door (anyone here have one they would like to sell and ship me to the UK? It's a '51), and I'd like to get someone else to restore my channels properly. Any offers? I figure that with my fat fingers, I'd only end up breaking something again.
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beetleseb
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Cheltenham UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Ouch thats gotta hurt
Owen at the vwgarden.co.uk will have the regulator. Hes a top bloke, I've bought loads of him.
Good luck
Seb |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9405
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Even using the 1/4 masonite forms I use, the channels are still pretty tight when they are first re-felted.
Broken teeth on the regs is common, your was probably already weakend anyway. You can throw some MIG metal on there and file new tooth. Someone was making replacement gears a while back also, but you have to drill rivets and re-assemble. Usually either just to find a new reg.
I have some extras, but it is probably not worth shipping to the UK...
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4135
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhodrich wrote: |
My car has been laid up over the winter, and I tackled the other side. Major problem! All seemed to be going well until I put the channel in, and tried putting up the window.
It was not sliding well at the top, and I pushed too hard on the winder. Nasty sound of metal breaking, and the winder now spins round and round. Took it out today, and I've taken a tooth off the regulator.
I give up. This is the nastiest job I've ever had to do on a bug, ever. All that glue, and it still doesn't work, and I've bust the regulator.
I need a new regulator now for the passenger door (anyone here have one they would like to sell and ship me to the UK? It's a '51), and I'd like to get someone else to restore my channels properly. Any offers? I figure that with my fat fingers, I'd only end up breaking something again.
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All around the top of the curved part, you have to cut all the way through the felting to let the glass protrude past the channel up into the door. Get a razor and slice that baby!!
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Split50
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2005
Posts: 55
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have exactly the same problem, even snapped a tooth off the regulator.
I ground off the rivets and replaced the gear sector with a good one from another regulator I had for the other door.
I made a tool by welding two pieces of flat plate to a pair of old end cutters which I have used to spread the channel to give the glass a bit more room but both windows still won't close completely. |
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ismozka
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Joined: March 20, 2008
Posts: 11
Location: turkey
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9405
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a pic of the masonite boards I use to press the felt into the bottom of the rubber channels after gluing. You actually can't see much of them there in the pic. After the glue is set, the forms are removed, and the felt edges are trimmed and rolled over and glued to the side of the channels.
Since the masonite is 1/4" (6+ mm), and the glass (stock) 5mm, it creates the necessary clearance. The forms , as you can see, are clamped into the channels hard. There are 3 pieces.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 1999
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I used the velvet part of velcro to do the window channels in my TR6. It worked pretty good, the velvet is preglued, you just tear off the paper backing and fold the velvet in half an begin careful stuffing. I don't know yet if it works in a VW but I need to do the doors in my '59 soon, I'll let you know how it goes.
Don |
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Rhodrich
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2001
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the advice everyone.
I'm feeling a bit better today. The glass can be pushed right up to the top by hand, so I figure if I leave it there, it'll help push everything in for when I fix/replace the regulator.
I've noticed that the other side does seem a lot smoother than when I first did it.
Have been offered some regulators from Sweden, but I'll speak to Owen, and see if he's got some first (I bought my passenger side seat from him).
These things are sent to test us. I took the car out for a long run with the ragtop back and the windows open yesterday, and it made it all worth it again! |
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