Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Baja Restoration 1, 2, 3 Running! Help w/ disc brake upgrade
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> HBB Off-Road Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Baja Restoration 1, 2, 3 Running! Help w/ disc brake upgrade Reply with quote

Hello everyone.
My name is Bartok, I’m Polish-American living in suburbs of NYC. On daily basis I design and build interior spaces (kitchens, bathrooms etc), but evenings I turn into passionate garage mechanic. I would like to show you a brief documentation of my Baja build process, as well ask couple of questions needed to complete the project.

One of the nicest things about this off road beetle to me, is that it was given to me as a gift from a friend. She bought the car knowing that it will require lots of maintenance, and as it happens to many of out projects, it became less than possible to get it properly finished. The project was given to me, with an understanding that it was going to a "good hands". I am on the mission to pull the very best out of it.

Originally I am a rotary Mazda enthusiast. I am in the middle of the frame up restoration of 1980 wide body SCCA class rx-7. But this project is a BIG one. Car is fully disassembled, and I am taking great amount of time to properly put it back together. I have collected good amount of the misc. parts to get it build well beyond factory settings. But Mazda project will take years to complete, and when its done, It will be me "personal masterpiece".

On another hand when i got this Baja, it was a running car. I was told that years ago it was a contestant in the Baja 1000 race (?any info). Problem with the car was a major oil leak. It poured so much oil from the bottom of the car, it looked like a veggie juicer. Prior to my build I was told that the engine was overhauled, but whoever did the job, did it very poorly. On another hand if not because of that person, the car would never be given to me.

When I pulled that engine block out, none of the seals have been replaced, but after I looked inside of the cylinders- they were all freshly honed, with new pistons, rings, but…old seals all around.

Thanks to my friend Tomas

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


via e-mails and pictures (USA to Poland), we started slowly analyzing the parts on the car. We realized that it has a pretty nice set up. It is 1600cc case w oversized pistons and cylinders, poly trans mounts etc. Nice external protective cages, roof racks and all the basics for the unique Baja look. Tomas gave me all the foundation knowledge of air-cooled motors, and since he has a beautiful and fully restored beetle, he was able to share great amount of knowledge and educate me the basics as well deeper facts.

Ever since I have run a major research, purchased couple of books (Fisher, Wilson etc), and became a part of the best resource- this and other beetle web side forums.

I am not an expert, what so ever, but I am really trying to do the best, that i can, At this point I am in the process of putting engine together I will appreciate any input from the air-cooled crew .

It has been so far about 4 weeks of work.

The first look at baja, on the trailer


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Oil leak from dog house cooler
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Overheated piston (rust) This cylinder also showed lowest compression

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dirty and greasy block

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rusto- paint job for the frames
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Motor all apart
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pic before Oxalic acid bath
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Test assembly, Since then i have reopened the head, to change to ss valves and performance springs.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Grinding the seats. Thanx to "Trevor's Automotive Machine Shop" in Jamaica Queens. His comment: "HAHA..Man!! I have not seen one of these (heads), since I left Barbados"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mild porting and polishing performed: in order to freshen up the breathing and combustion pathway. It was done with DREMEL and roughly 3 carbide bids plus flapping sandpaper. It is not perfect job, but i'm happy about the results. I got a bid of feel of working w/ aluminum which soon to come i will perform on insides of wankel motor.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Valve lapping. I have used metal polishing paste block diluted with oil to thick paste.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


CC's measuring with old valves. Disc was simply made out of lexan cut out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also at this point i will ask members for advice and some hints. I do have a cc's calculations for each individual chamber. It measures within 1.25ml difference. I also have a measurements of clerances between top of piston and cylinder housings. I have tried to use
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/specgeninfo/calcs.htm
calculator, but i am quiet confused. I am not getting a whole bore, stroke, compression ratio. Whoever would be capable to guide me through these steps, please help, I have a data, but dont know what to do with it. What is the acceptable difference in overall combustion chamber sizes...
Motor is still open and i will be waiting for advice before i close it and torque it up.
DATA
average cc's =49.5ml with 1.25ml differences.
72 beetle
1600cc case w 1641 cylinders and 86.95 pistons (SPO.05)
AE block
Heads 040 101 3752 /58; 040 101 3752 /62 dual intake port
#46 on rockers

Thank You and please feel free to leave a feedback and help me a bit to guide me through the finishing process. Bartok


Last edited by Hugging Corners on Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 7 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
GhiaBateman
Samba Member


Joined: August 11, 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Epsom, NH
GhiaBateman is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy cow that rear cage is upside down Shocked Shocked what is going on there?! I know you didn't do it but PLEASE fix it
Looks like you'll have though
_________________
(o=|=o) Life before play... Damn! it's gonna be awhile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kyle_pc_75
Samba Member


Joined: November 26, 2008
Posts: 511
Location: Park City, UT, USA
kyle_pc_75 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhiaBateman wrote:
holy cow that rear cage is upside down


I was trying to figure out what was going on there....I'd get a different exhaust with better clearance as well if you plan on off-roading. Have fun!

Kyle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
xirxious
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2007
Posts: 665
Location: Seattle
xirxious is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that too, and thought for a second, crap is MINE upsidown?!?

With the bumper like that, if you are hit, it will shear those tabs right off and smash into the newly rebuilt motor

GhiaBateman wrote:
holy cow that rear cage is upside down Shocked Shocked what is going on there?! I know you didn't do it but PLEASE fix it
Looks like you'll have though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
KrAzY-BaJa
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Sacramento CA.
KrAzY-BaJa is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats the first thing i noticed too lol that cage is upside down Shocked

and that exhaust would be useless off road Shocked (as it would rip off)
_________________
70% of what you buy is something to start with.
ForYotaWagen: A Ford/Toyota/Volkswagen http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4871576&highlight=#4871576
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
bajaherbie
Samba Sooner


Joined: November 27, 2003
Posts: 2985
Location: altus, oklahoma
bajaherbie is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Baja Restoration 1, 2, 3! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thats the rarest of the rare. ultra-scarce austrailian "down under" rear cage. list it on ebay Laughing
_________________
blank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tundrawolf
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2009
Posts: 1384
Location: RIP Mishomi my friend. I will always love you.
tundrawolf is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give him a break, guys.

Hi Bartok, I love what you did with the motor. Whenever I get my motor, I hope to make it that clean!

I hate dirty oil leaking motors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
xirxious
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2007
Posts: 665
Location: Seattle
xirxious is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we're just breakin' balls, none of us knew anything until someone told us or passed on the skill. He looks to have more skill rebuilding motors than alot of VW 'home tech's' I've met. Did you go with bigger valves or just re-mated them with the seats?

With porting its important they're all flowing pretty close. There are some online plans for making a simple flowbench with a home mead manometer of Taigon tub and a shop vac.


tundrawolf wrote:
Give him a break, guys.

Hi Bartok, I love what you did with the motor. Whenever I get my motor, I hope to make it that clean!

I hate dirty oil leaking motors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW...that's hilarious!! how could i miss that!!.
When i got the car a lot of things on it were tacky. I even found an old aluminum street sign to to make a skid plate...just wait until i would try to install it. Well i guess someone tried to make baja low-rider look- no comments. On another hand there is a lot of potential!

And don't worry guys i will ditch that exhaust/cage look as soon as motor in place:)

I've got some nice replacement here

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanx for a bench flow test idea. Porting that was done was very minimal. I primary did carbon cleaning, and some shaving until the most of the visible pores were gone. I have also pulled the curves on the sides of the combustion chamber closer towards piston casting. Also the sharp edges on the inner part of the seat was routed smooth. I have kept original valve sizes- 32mm and 35.5mm, and a single angle valve job. I could not find specialty beetle machine shop to give the heads to, as well this is my first head alteration job, so i kept it simple. If i wanted go monster i'd go rotary, but present suspension would not handle it. (drums etc).

I am still on the wait for the unanswered question (the end of original post). Perhaps I've should place it in performance section, but no double posts here

Thanx for feedback, because learning on your own mistakes in this hobby is pricey. I need it to make the project right.!
Bartok


Last edited by Hugging Corners on Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Thunderbug4U
Samba Member


Joined: March 25, 2008
Posts: 126
Location: San Marcos CA
Thunderbug4U is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is a mid engine exhaust in the picture with your buddy Shocked
I'm not sure that will work in a tail dragger. Has anyone tried it? Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got the pipes for really misc price, could not refuse it, and always re-sell it. It came off from 1600cc. I am a very new into this scene, and not always understand all technical vocabulary (mid engine- dune buggie?). It you mean that it might clash with the cage?. I am thinking of modify the shape of the pipes locally and drop in the muffler. Im not sure it it will work but it is yet to come. I have more important issues now, but thanx for a hint!

ps. My buddy (PUMA) for good or bad- just pissed on the carpet at work Surprised
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Thunderbug4U
Samba Member


Joined: March 25, 2008
Posts: 126
Location: San Marcos CA
Thunderbug4U is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand completely about being new to particular endeavour so maybe I can shed a little light. What I meant by a "mid engine" (generally in a tubing chassis dune buggy, but not always, 914's are mid engine) is that the engine is placed in front of the transmission as in this photo which has the exact style of exhaust as your picture there

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]


A "tail dragger" has the engine behind the transmission. Like this one

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]

Your baja would be considered a tail dragger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great.....thanx for info!
And not so great for the pipes.
I'll see how it goes, but the angle of the pipes looked funny. I'll try to put my mig to action or will just get replacement. No wonder i've got good price on it.

Hehe...as you see somehow things come to me if not upside down, they in reverse:))

..or i have a great idea!! There is no working heat in the car....why don't I just.....lol


Last edited by Hugging Corners on Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jeff denham
Samba Member


Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 780
Location: calif
jeff denham is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good to see your still using stones for your VJobs if you dont want to see day light thrue your seat to valve its still the only way to 360deg SEAL . keep up the good work . JD.
_________________
www.dprmachine.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cuog
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 509
Location: Richmond VA
Cuog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That mid engine exhaust should still work with the rear engine beetle... it just may look a little silly sticking so far out the back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vindeta
Samba Member


Joined: June 23, 2009
Posts: 224
Location: ohio
vindeta is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

build looks great man cant wait to see the finished product.

i dont know if you have the baja "bible" (baja bugs and buggies.. jeff hibbard) or not but one wont get far without it.


btw
i dont know how much of that rustolem spray paint you have used but...

ive used that high heat on lots of things, atv exhaust, gokart exhaust, and grills.
and every time within 20 min of starting the engine up the paint just melts right off and its just a small engine.

the rustolem normal spay paint works ok but it scratches VERY easily, man i have used that everywhere for years and every time it scratches and rusts.

ive painted, my whole atv (twice), my whole gokart (twice), guns, wood, trailers, ect...

krylon and duplicolor make much better spray paints then rustolem.

btw im not bashing rustolem, im using there rusty metal primer and there oil base enamel on my chassis.
_________________
75 baja in progress!
http://www.azbaja.com/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=5767.html
build thread^^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Classifieds Feedback
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeff denham wrote:
good to see your still using stones for your VJobs if you dont want to see day light thrue your seat to valve its still the only way to 360deg SEAL . keep up the good work . JD.

Jeff: I kind of wondered about it myself, but I thought that stone would be less precise than metal cutting tool, because of the removal a bit of stone particles just after a fraction of the turn, But i think the point it is to constantly "resharpen" the stone to the straight edge, and lap the valves afterwords, to make sure that proper seal is obtained all around the valve and stone grindind marks are polished out.
What are the pros and cons of stone valve job vs. (i assume) bid cutting?

vindeta:
Thank you for the comments.
...Nope i dont have jeff hibbard "BAJA BIBLE"
I will get it as soon as i will finish the motor and get the car running.
My head is "close minded" now in reference to learning and finishing the engine. Suspensions will be the next step for me after i hit the trail.

I have used hi heat spray paint for the original exhaust (as listed 700deg)

(Cuog:)..but since painting original exhaust i've got mid engine pipes, which I also think they look silly, and will try to modify. ...Or i might just get different pipes.

Rusto matte professional went only for pipes
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?C...1&vc=1
this is an inspirational web site, and probably i will perform such of paint job. I think that the trick here is to dilute paint it w/ acetone and apply in thin layers, which almost works like a catalyst for 2 stage paints.

If we are talking about spray paints...how about "Montana" which graffiti users price at the highest level? (no experience here:)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jeff denham
Samba Member


Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 780
Location: calif
jeff denham is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes it is nessasary to proerly DRESS the stone keep a good eye not to let the stone get cloged. stock seats are the worst. it usaly takes longer to do a 3 angle stock seat job than it does a big valve set. in the early days i would never lap a VJ but now yes i do . you should stay on top of your mandrills and pilots NO SLOP . and of coares keeping chatter down to a min if any roughfing or finishing. i gusse its all in the operator hands having the experinece helps. JD.
_________________
www.dprmachine.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
c.davis419
Samba Member


Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 506
Location: Vista,CA
c.davis419 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed in your pic with the freshly painted parts that you're planning on reusing the pushrod tubes. I strongly recommend putting new ones in as they crush down to seat in the heads and block to seal up the motor. Reusing old ones will almost ensure your motor will leak oil as this is the most common area for oil leaks on VW's. All 8 tubes can be had new for less than $20. Make sure you replace the rear main seal and pull out the oil pump to check its condition as well.
_________________
1967 beetle
1974 Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Hugging Corners
Samba Member


Joined: June 17, 2009
Posts: 140

Hugging Corners is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......jeff denham

i agree, and very good points! will pay more attention during next build up, but i was not far out from your descriptions, and feel and logic sometimes apply to unknowns

.......c.davis419

I will reuse tushrod tubes, unfortunately I'm stepping on time dead line here.

I have pulled them out, and clean out the tips with stripper. And have routed them on wooden dowel to perfection, have stretch them, and marine silicone will apply afterwords. If it lasts a year or two knowing my driving style i might be going to the motor for adjustments anyways.

Also I did open oil pump. did not check it for precise clearances (just visual). But looking from the speed of oil that poured from the oil cooler before dissembling the motor.....it was a speed of a good veggie juicer (used to work juice bar so here we go:) so pump should be fine. Also it is external item and since its in I can always go back to it quickly.

Rear main seal that's behind the clutch?. I have the seal and alignment tool. Are there any specific procedures besides torquing the bolts?

Thank You guys for interested in this write up.
B
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> HBB Off-Road All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2024, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.