911-style Cooling Shroud...an exercise in futility

[Stripped66]

I am not beating a dead horse but, perhaps, beating one that is gravely ill...for the sport of it.

I've been a proponent of the stock cooling system, especially in light of Jake's testing of various cooling systems, including the 911 shroud. However, despite the shortcomings of the 911 shroud, "Sanddeep" (from the STF and German Look forums) demonstrated how simple diverters/deflectors and trial-and-error could improve its function and decrease the delta-Temp between all 4 cylinders.

My cooling needs have changed, too. Since installing Pauter's ductile iron cylinders, I've been concerned that cooling airflow and pressure have changed, since this fin size and diameter on these cylinders are quite different than stock...I *think* more air is going around the cylinders than through the heads.

I'd also like to fit an intercooler into the engine compartment. It's crowded in there right now, with the brackets for the A/C compressor and vacuum-pump commanding precious real-estate (and I haven't even mounted the A/C compressor or vacuum pump yet ). The 911-style shroud will free up some precious space to allow me to fit an intercooler in there...eventually.

So, today I picked up a used Bernie Bergmann 911-shroud. Yes, I have turned on my convictions and will give this thing a shot. It's going to take a bit of work to get it in there, as parts of the wasserboxer case differ from the Type 1 case and interfere with the fan-mount. I plan to document the install and modifications, much like "Sanddeep" did on the STF and Germanlook forums. I have a 4-channel Cylinder Head Temp gauge; it is temperature-compensated, digital, and displays all 4 channels at once. Presently, I cannot datalog with this gauge, though I'll look into what modifications are needed so that I can. At the very least, I can see the temp of all 4 cylinders at the same time, and I can log those numbers during test-drives.

Once I get this shroud installed, I'll begin posting the cylinder temps. I'll start with the shroud in it's "stock", unmodified form, and progress from there. Hopefully I'll be able to achieve the low delta-Temps across all 4 cylinders that "Sanddeep" documented, and be satisfied with the system. Conversely, if I am never satisfied with the system, after exhausting all efforts, I will document that here, too.

So, is this the do-all experiment to end all arguments with the 911 shroud? Not at all. Most folks, whether proponents or opponents of the 911-shroud, have never seen Sanddeep's thread which independently documented how bad his Bergmann shroud was and how much he was able to improved its cooling ability. And many others don't trust Jake's testing for unbiased data or opinions, given that he's in the business to sell cooling systems. This experiment will just be another set of data by which folks can evaluate the Bergmann 911-style shroud.
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[Stripped66]

First things first, what are we working with?

2276cc, converted wasserboxer case, 94mm SuperSquish pistons, mild Pauter roller cam (248* @ 0.050", around .510" lift at the valve), DRD L6 heads (42x38), Pauter cylinders, T3/T4 hybrid, single 45mm TB, CB Performance fuel-injection end-castings (welded and port-matched to the L6 heads), Electromotive Tec-GT fuel-injection and ignition. CR is set to 9.0:1 and boost is limited to 7psi (but may soon be raised); redline is limited to 6000 rpm simply to conserve the valvetrain.

This car gets driven several times a week, sometimes for commuting, sometimes for the fun of it. I've never hesitated to drive in anywhere; it's last long trip was 100 miles from Delaware to the DC area here in Maryland...it was 97 degrees that day. I picked up another 60 miles today during the round-trip from picking up the 911-shroud. This engine has about 6000 miles on it during the last 18 months (5000 of it when N/A). This was built as a street engine, and gets used as a street engine...pump gas only, full-weight car and full-weight driver.
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[Bad bug]

Stripped66 are you going to use the horizontal or the vertical 911 setup. I think the horizontal setup would work out best as air doesn't like to turn 90 degrees. Just for the record i think sandeep's shroud came from fat performance. I also have a 911 fan i would like to use with my engine ( type 4 ) but i was thinking of using the horizontal shroud similar to what wally from aircooledtechnology.com is using on his turboed t4 engine.

[krusher]

If you put an intercooler in the engine bay isnt that going to raise the temp of the air the cooling fan is fed?
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(06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast"

[Stripped66]

[Stripped66]

[craigman]

I can't wait to see the info personally.
I am really glad to see that YOU are doing this for YOURSELF. Probably 95% of people on here read somewhere that someone said this or that.
I can respect a guy that's not influenced by other factors. Like sales, ect.
Prop to you man!
Looking forward to your data.

Craig

[twokeedz]

I also can't wait to see your results! I've got a 911 shroud set up on my 2110cc and would like to see the numbers you gather. I really want to keep my set up mainly because it looks so much better than anything else out there...thanks again!

[Viande]

They can be made to work quite well. They just do not work as delivered.
Don made his own and you can see the directional vanes he chose to use in this pic.

This is on one of his big block engines in his personal street car.

Good luck and I will be watching to see your results with interest.
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[gonebuggy]

I've personally witnessed Sandeep's car make an 11 second pass and then drive an hour on the highway home...

He's got to be doing something right!

Alex

[Stripped66]

[gonebuggy]

[tpnuckels]

Is this the thread?

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5973

[Stripped66]

That would be the thread; thank you guys for finding it. All of the links to the original thread that Sandeep posted on the STF are dead...I suppose that happened when germanlook.com ceased to host the forum. Good to know that the thread is still accessible; unfortunately, none of the pics Sandeep originally posted are viewable so, no shortcuts for me.
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[ALB]

Interesting project; like everyone else I'll be watching what you come up with. Maybe Sandeep would send you the pics? It never hurts to ask....
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!!

[58Dub]

There was a car...probably at least a couple years ago in Hot VW that had a Porsche style fan that looked like the custom shroud merged into stock VW cyl tins. Seems that if the fan can deliver the volume of air... the stock tins can distribute it around the cyls and heads like a stock unit. not sure if it had the thermostat flaps to help direct the air down rather than across. Just something I was thinking of after reading your post.
Good luck....

[Stripped66]

[Jimmy111]

Just a few points before you start.
Just rember that the VW cooling system was volumn based and the Porshe was pressure/velocity based. Most of the Porsche fan kits used cut down fans that are not the original diameter. This was the reason for most of the horizontal designs because the original size fan could be used.

A 911 porsche fan flows less air that a vw fan but at higher pressures.
The reason for this is Porshe motors are better designed and their cooling surfaces achieves almost 70% efficiency while the VW system is closer to 30%

A drag race or a cruise down the freeway in a bug makes little use of the cooling system. In fact most drag racers remove the fan belt before the run. Cruising down the freeway only uses 15-30hp depending on the terrain.

[58Dub]

does anyone still make a horizontal kit?

[Stripped66]