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whats the differences on a 1955 ghia
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retrowagen
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I have lots of photography to do, on three continents (at least) at my expense, and I am hoping for 2012. Unless, of course, that movie proves to be surprisingly true, in which case, the book (and all of us) are tragically doomed instead. Laughing
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1953Volks
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
The build year (Baujahr) is NOT the model year. Just like a body number isn't a VIN.

You guys are living a fantasy if you think VW had different cutoffs for the model year for the different cars. Beetles made after Aug 55 are 56 model year cars. Same applies to the other Type 1.


why are we arguing and getting away from the question? all i want to figure out what changes were made from 1955(build year ,model year, whatever) to late 1956. i know the bumper guards are solid and blades are one piece. what other changes, also they relocated the seat tracks on the lower floorboard to the flat part in later years,they had a brace of some sort to mount the back of seat bracket. track to tarck on my ghia is 19.5 inches and on my 57 is 22.5 inches otherwise the seats from a late 56 will not fit, please list all the componants that are correct so i can locate the parts and finish my car. my vin is 10925660, cant get any info from the vw musuem because the microfiche is deteriorated.
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1953Volks
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1953Volks wrote:
Bruce wrote:
The build year (Baujahr) is NOT the model year. Just like a body number isn't a VIN.

You guys are living a fantasy if you think VW had different cutoffs for the model year for the different cars. Beetles made after Aug 55 are 56 model year cars. Same applies to the other Type 1.


why are we arguing and getting away from the question? all i want to figure out what changes were made from 1955(build year ,model year, whatever) to late 1956. i know the bumper guards are solid and blades are one piece. what other changes, also they relocated the seat tracks on the lower floorboard to the flat part in later years,they had a brace of some sort to mount the back of seat bracket. track to tarck on my ghia is 19.5 inches and on my 57 is 22.5 inches otherwise the seats from a late 56 will not fit, please list all the componants that are correct so i can locate the parts and finish my car. my vin is 10925660, cant get any info from the vw musuem because the microfiche is deteriorated.




also my california pink slip states it is registered as a 55 for 1956 year?please post some picks of body differences and interior differences, example dash grill?
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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1953Volks wrote:



also my california pink slip states it is registered as a 55 for 1956 year?please post some picks of body differences and interior differences, example dash grill?


Correct speaker grill.

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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oct.55 interior.

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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Side trim with inserts.
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Beetle style crimp strip for decklid+hood rubber.
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Under rear seat base.
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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'moulded' rain gutter.
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No rear Karmann Ghia script.
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Hopefully these are of some use to you.
What is the body number of your car?
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1953Volks
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aerosilver wrote:
1953Volks wrote:



also my california pink slip states it is registered as a 55 for 1956 year?please post some picks of body differences and interior differences, example dash grill?


Correct speaker grill.

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THANKS FOR THE TRUE HELP AND NO ARGUING.
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1953Volks wrote:
THANKS FOR THE TRUE HELP AND NO ARGUING.


Here on The Samba we don't call it arguing...this is what we call an impassioned discussion. Wink
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technik
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question,

Was the speaker grill always painted?
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rtroy
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All,

I want it clear that I was ASKED to respond to this thread. Otherwise, I'd have ignored it. I have no dog in this hunt, no agenda, and nearly no interest. I just happen to be a recognized "expert" who was asked to respond.

There are two different aspects of this worth discussing. First: "all i want to figure out what changes were made from 1955(build year ,model year, whatever) to late 1956." Secondly: there was no model year for the Karmann Ghia until '65, and prior to that there were only two years when one could argue there was a "model year" type change, namely '58 and '60.

Unfortunately, there are literally probably over a thousand changes, most quite small, hundreds of which are documented from the beginning of production to August of '56. As someone who has owned many tens of '55 Karmann Ghias, I certainly should have the greatest compiled list of such changes. Unfortunately, these cars are rare enough that one often doesn't realize differences until one has much more exposure and then, often, it is too late to document many things as one seldom owns many such vehicles all at one time. Few have the foresight to document absolutely everything...

The simple truth is that these were horrifically expensive / difficult to build automobiles and Karmann worked every day to simplify the process so that it could make more profit. From May to September, 1955, were undoubtedly the most changes. The rate of change decreased from there, but the car wasn't somewhat consistent until about January or so of '56. It was April of '56, if I recall correctly, when Karmann finally made its first actual profit on the automobile... I have a meter square photo of that car - it was decorated with roses as it proceeded down the production line ... or .. as I remember more correctly, they celebrated the LAST no-profit vehicle, it was the NEXT one in line, the one BEHIND the one with the roses, that was the first one that was "all profit." And I know because I not only have the photo (and the negative for that image) but also because I have a copy of the contract...

There are more obvious and more subtle changes through this period, such as the aluminum quarter window trim, the single-piece bumper blades (vs 3 piece), the main wiring loom running through the cabin, the door hinges being cast (instead of hand-made), among literally hundreds of others. Changes were made "randomly" - as soon as Karmann could put a money-saving feature in place, they did it. Some parts, like the rear decklid logo, weren't added until the part was available, etc. NO ONE HAS COMPILED _all_ THE CHANGES. And I do mean nobody. I'm pretty certain that at this late date, it's actually impossible anyway because there were so many.

Again, I dare say no one knows _all_ the changes from the beginning of production through August (just for a date certain) of '56, and anyone who claims to is simply either mistaken (one might say lying) or ignorant, and anyone who claims there were model years for the KG before '65 is CLEARLY ignorant - and / or defiantly stupid. This is not meant as an attack on anyone, it's just an observation from decades of research. KGP&R isn't helping with their knowingly sticking to model years, however, Scott has told me that they do so simply "not to confuse anyone." Well, Scott, thanks for the help.

Regards,
Richard
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you don't get is that the model year change has NOTHING to do with technical design changes. It is purely a MARKETING concept. Created to cause some hype in the market for the "new" model. If we believe your definition, there never was a model year since many thousands of changes occured in the middle of the model year right into the 70s.

When VW introduced the KG in the early fall of 55, all the other car makers were selling 1956 model year cars. VW recognised how stupid it would be to call it a 55 because most people would wonder why they are selling the "old" model.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...your opinion is out there Bruce, people will arrive at the topic, read the discussion and decide on which side they stand. That's OK but let's draw a line here and get into the meat of the topic and continue with the near impossible listing of the difference. Smile
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RockStock
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schoolmaster Moxon, with respect Sir, step back, chill out, let the discussion go where it goes. Seriously. You're spoiling fun. Talk about a sanotised forum.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockStock wrote:
Schoolmaster Moxon, with respect Sir, step back, chill out, let the discussion go where it goes. Seriously. You're spoiling fun. Talk about a sanotised forum.


Just trying to steer it where the original poster wants it to go.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtroy wrote:
I have no agenda

how about sharing some of your unique Karmann Ghia pictures on a public forum? for the greater good?

John Moxon wrote:
RockStock wrote:
Schoolmaster Moxon, with respect Sir, step back, chill out, let the discussion go where it goes. Seriously. You're spoiling fun. Talk about a sanotised forum.


Just trying to steer it where the original poster wants it to go.


John, apologies, but that is just too straight. It probably also puts people off from posting. From my position the posts have been healthy debate.
Bruce is respected, Dave is respected, RT is respected...
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockStock wrote:

John Moxon wrote:

Just trying to steer it where the original poster wants it to go.


John, apologies, but that is just too straight. It probably also puts people off from posting. From my position the posts have been healthy debate.
Bruce is respected, Dave is respected, RT is respected...


No need to apologise...it's not an immovable hand on the steering wheel. The masses will decide. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtroy wrote:

Again, I dare say no one knows _all_ the changes from the beginning of production through August (just for a date certain) of '56, and anyone who claims to is simply either mistaken (one might say lying) or ignorant.
Regards,
Richard


Richard is so true is his statement. No one knows every change, but there are a lot of people that know some specific changes. I have always learned that a group of people knows more than the brightest individual.

Since most of the subject matter experts are on this topic, why don't we work together and build a list of changes???

Dave and Richard, are you both willing to give your knowledge away for the community and not keeping it for commercial reasons and only publish it in a book.

Difficult question isn't?

Patrick
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also let's go back to 1953VOLKS.

What is your intentions with this knowledge? I told you most of the changes before in PM and also some pictures were published on this topic: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257646

I have asked you several times for the bodynumber of your yellow body. I never got your bodynumber nor extra pictures of the specific area's to recognise a 1955 body. For me it is clear, that you have a 1955 VW pan and a later ghia body. It is not even sure, if you have a ghia pan? It can also be a 1955 bug pan with ghia panhalves welded in. Since VW can't read the microfiches, we would never have any proof it would be a ghia. Maybe you can post a picture of your original title, so that we can see it is really an early ghia.

I am more than willing to help you, but than you should also need to answer my questions.

Most important question now is: What are your intentions? Are you trying to modify a 1956/57 body to look like a 1955 body? And if we all help you and you succeed in building a 1955 look-a-like, will you tell a future owner that it is not an original 1955 body when you have to car for sale?

Patrick
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rtroy
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pbaptist wrote:
rtroy wrote:

Again, I dare say no one knows _all_ the changes from the beginning of production through August (just for a date certain) of '56, and anyone who claims to is simply either mistaken (one might say lying) or ignorant.
Regards,
Richard


Richard is so true is his statement. No one knows every change, but there are a lot of people that know some specific changes. I have always learned that a group of people knows more than the brightest individual.

Since most of the subject matter experts are on this topic, why don't we work together and build a list of changes???

Dave and Richard, are you both willing to give your knowledge away for the community and not keeping it for commercial reasons and only publish it in a book.

Difficult question isn't?

Patrick


Patrick,

time is also a key element; I am presently trying to run a scientific business, an automotive business (with two marketing perspectives), and found a new medical-related business... I haven't much "bandwidth" left for optional things like this discussion. ...Sorry for that...

Richard
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