Thing/Bug EGR manifold

[Wildthings]

On my 1973 Thing the EGR valve is a permanent part of the manifold and makes pulling the engine a pain as it hangs up on the bracket for the hood latch. Is this the correct set up or do I have some kind of bug set up. My Thing has a bug exhaust system installed. Any recommendation on what manifold to replace this one with? I don't have to meet smog, but wouldn't mind running the EGR is it could be removed easily when pulling the engine.

[///Mink]

Just remove it and make a metal block-off plate:

[Wildthings]

As I said, mine is a permanent part of the manifold. Wish it were so easy as something that could be unbolted.

[///Mink]

[SilverThing]

I wish it were as easy as just cutting that off. There is also a pipe on the underside that is braised into the manifold. It can be done, but is it worth it? I did it on one of my original manifolds with a damaged EGR, but I think it would have been cheaper/easier to have gotten a beetle manifold.

I am personally restoring the EGR system to functionality on my 1600 ( same kind of valve/manifold) and will have to figure out the issue of putting the engine back in with that valve sticking out. I don't think it is a huge issue unless you plan on pulling your motor a lot. One thought: the manifold can be removed with the engine in the car, but it is a bit of a pain.
_________________
"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
"I've seen pictures..." - Jeremy

[Wildthings]

[SilverThing]

That style of EGR valve was only used on early 73 Thing and late 72/early 73 Beetle and Ghia. Large heat risers is an indication, but the part number is a dead give away. 181 129 701 is the version for the Thing.
_________________
"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
"I've seen pictures..." - Jeremy

[sportin-wood]

Old thread, but I have this same issue.

Wildthings - can I ask what you ended up doing? Did you determine what kind of manifold you could replace that one with?
_________________
.
1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[Rombauer]

113.129.701 CA is the EGR manifold currently on Rombauer.

Soon to be replaced by the 113.129.701 AG non-egr manifold. That is what you need.

[sportin-wood]

Good info - thank you.
_________________
.
1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[Glenn]

I'm rebuilding the engine of a 73 Thing and it has the same manifold as a Beetle. The EGR is removed and a plate over the port.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[sportin-wood]

The manifold on my Thing doesn't have the 2 bolts - it looks like this one.

_________________
.
1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[SilverThing]

That is the early style EGR manifold that I mentioned earlier in the thread. With no hose connected to it, the EGR isn't doing anything (good or bad). The easiest way to remove it is to replace the manifold.

I removed that style of valve on one of the manifolds I have, but it was more work than just replacing the manifold would have been. It involved removing the manifold from the engine, cutting off the plate with the valve on it (using a grinder to make the carburetor flange look 'normal'), heating the tube that goes into the manifold with a torch to free the brazing, removing the tube, and lastly brazing the resulting hole shut. Then, of course, reinstalling it on the engine. You might be able to avoid the brazing portions, but I was concerned about whatever I did with the pipe leaking.

I don't know that there is a whole lot of space to cut the valve off with the manifold still on the engine. I'd also be concerned about metal chips and dust going places I don't want (into the generator or into the manifold for example).

Out of curiosity, what EGR filter do you have on the engine? It is on the underside of the tin where the pipe connects to the exhaust (the angled pipe that goes past the belt). Is it one of the square ones or does it have a curly-q coil? I only ask because I have been trying to find one of the cooling coil ones for years without luck.

Lastly, EGR gets blamed for a lot of ills (mis-blamed in my opinion). VW was somewhat clever with how they implemented it. If it is hooked up to an appropriate port on a carburetor, it only operates at part throttle. It doesn't work at full throttle so it isn't robbing you of any horsepower. If anything, it should make your part throttle more efficient. The one caveat is that most mufflers and exhaust systems these days don't have connections for it so it might not be possible to keep it operational depending on what you have for exhaust.
_________________
"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
"I've seen pictures..." - Jeremy

[sportin-wood]

No idea what EGR filter is on this. Someone snipped off the tube and I'm not sure where it's supposed to connect to the missing tin. Here's a couple more pics of what I have. It has a type-1 muffler.

_________________
.
1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli

[SilverThing]

That is very similar to the one I removed. Mine also was cut at that same spot.

Your EGR filter is likely long gone. It would be on the under side of the lower pulley tin on the driver's side. The weird hex bolt on that tin (drivers side almost directly below the distributor) is the connection from the filter to the manifold (if your pipe weren't cut off...)

That said, if you're just trying to get the engine running, disconnect the vacuum hose to the top of the valve. It is hooked up to the wrong port on the carburetor anyways.



Speaking of vacuum hose connections:
Your vacuum advance is connected correctly: driver side port of the carburetor to the rear portion of the vacuum advance on the distributor (when I say "rear" I mean rear of the car).

The vacuum retard on the distributor (front portion of the same can), however, should be connected to the rear port of the carburetor (where the EGR is currently connected).

The manifold connection that the vacuum retard is currently connected to (driver side port on the manifold below the carburetor) should be connected to the air cleaner thermostat (vacuum fitting next to the red hose on your air cleaner).

I can't see it in the picture, but there may be one more vacuum port on your carburetor (not all carburetors have it). The EGR valve is fed by a port that is on the rear base flange of the carburetor (slightly offset to the passenger side) that angles up at about a 45 degree angle. If you have that port, cap it (there are rubber vacuum caps available or you can plug a short length of hose in a pinch).



While we are talking about what I can see on the engine, you might double check that the fuel pump has the right pushrod. That looks like an alternator style pump, which uses a different pushrod than the generator style pump. The pushrod needs to match the pump or it won't work correctly.

I would also replace the coil strap with a proper coil bracket.

Don't forget a return spring on the carburetor throttle arm. Your throttle arm has a little extension that works with a dashpot (slows throttle closing), but isn't necessary for the engine to run. I haven't had the best experiences with dashpots on my engine. I have had the dashport rods move out of line causing the throttle to stick open slightly (nothing damaging; just enough to have a high idle). It might have just been poor quality dashpots...

The missing rear tin is 73 Thing only, unfortunately (at least in the US market). I'm not sure if any of the aftermarket tins work as a replacement off-hand. The stock tin has a hole for a hot air intake to your air filter, which helps the engine warm up faster and also improves fuel economy. At full throttle, the air cleaner turns off the hot air intake, which helps your engine make a little more power.

You should also replace the seal that goes around the perimeter of the engine. The seal keeps hot air from circulating back into your cooling fan.
_________________
"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
"I've seen pictures..." - Jeremy

[sportin-wood]

Thanks SilverThing - you are truly a wealth of information! I am new to Thing motors and had no idea what I have in front of me. I had posted a picture asking for help identifying missing tin(s) and other items that those with a familiarity of Things would have, but didn't get much of a response (see https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=798690&highlight= )

I had also posted a question regarding the coil mounting bracket because I had already purchased a used one on TS that ended up being too small https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=798621&highlight= and ordered another that I was told was the correct one off a vendor here and it's also too small, so as I thought might happen, I've started a coil bracket collection! The coil looks pretty bad, so I might invest in a new coil anyway - hopefully one that will fit one my 2 replacement brackets!

Doing some research, I've seen that some have replaced the manifold when the EGR valve is deleted, so I might do that if I can determine which will work on this car. It currently has a Bocar 34PICT-3 carb that I was going to try to rebuild. This car has apparently sat for over 10 years, so it's going to need lots of love to get running... Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
_________________
.
1966 Bug project
1973 Thing project
.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it." --- Jeff Spicoli