Brakes to the floor... occasionally

[Pittoale]

Sounds like a typical brake problem after a quick search here in the forums, but no one had this particular problem I think.

When I push the brake pedal, it surprises me every time with how far it goes. Sometimes it grabs right away, sometimes halfway, sometimes to the floor. Pump it once and it is usually back to grabbing about a quarter of the way down. Drive it a little ways, start over again.

We have recently adjusted the shoes and bled the lines to fix it before. It has started getting worse again. I am on my way to check for leaks on the cylinders, etc.

Please let me know if you have had this problem and what I should look for / do.

[xeno]

Almost always an air pocket or fluid escaping. rarely is it water in the line or contamination.

[Pittoale]

I see no leaks of brake fluid, and the reservoir is still topped off to the same level we left it at.

[Woreign]

Your brake master cylinder is probably leaking internally. I recommend replacing it with a new cylinder. Rebuild kits rarely solve the problem...

[Pittoale]

That was what I was thinking, possibly a new master cylinder would fix it. From previous posts, it looks like I should spring for the German version.

Some posts mentioned replacing the master and wheel cylinders, lines, and hoses all at once. I am a little confused about the lines/hoses. The Thing Shop lists both, I don't know the difference. I also don't know if I am up to replacing all of that on my own, what is the process for each part (master, wheel cyl x2, lines/hoses)?

Thanks for all your help!

[Captain Spalding]

[Woreign]

Brake lines are the metal tubes that attach to the master cylinder and stop short at each wheel. From there the brake hoses, which are made of flexible rubber, attach to each wheel cylinder. The brake hoses allow the wheels to turn and the move with the suspension. Rust will attack the lines and hoses will become brittle and cracked with age.

Replacing these parts is fairly easy, as is bleeding the system of air and adjusting the shoes. Take your time and you shouldn't have any problems.

[bucko]

I second (or third) the suggestion about the brakes. While a visual inspection may provide you with the illusion that the rubber "flex lines" from the back of the drums to the metal lines look good, they get soft internally, causing swelling which blocks the fluid to the wheel cylinders, or they can/will flex wider causing a spongy brake pedal feel.

After 30 plus years, they are all overdue for replacement. Add to your list the special flare wrench so that you do not strip the nut ends (rubber flex lines to metal). Soak these overnight with your favorite lubricant to help out.

You will find that your brakes are new again and problem free once this replacement has been done. Don't forget to replace the master cylinder with a good German unit too.

[Pittoale]

Thanks for the help, I will hopefully be working on it soon, we'll see if I can afford to do the whole brake system or not.

[Towel Rail]

You can't afford NOT to have good reliable brakes.
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1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009

[Video Bob]

Brakes are everything. Here's a photo of my start on brake restoration. Only new parts in photo is the shoes and cylinder. Everything else was restored by sandblasting and polishing with a vibrating polisher. Hi temp engine paint used for painted parts including brake drum (not shown)
Check out the sandblasted shock with orange metal flake paint.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/310265.jpg
_________________
Ya can't have too many Vdubs!
1956 Oval
1966 Beetle
1974 Thing
1974 Super Beetle
1976 Westy P22

[markie61]

[Pittoale]

Wow, great picture! Good job on that brake restoration.

[Ian Epperson]

[Video Bob]

No beam adjustment. Only the brake components were removed for cleaning, replacement and painting. Suspension was blasted and painted in place.
_________________
Ya can't have too many Vdubs!
1956 Oval
1966 Beetle
1974 Thing
1974 Super Beetle
1976 Westy P22

[Worknclassbug]

I'm draging this post up from the past. I'm having the same problem as the OP. The brake pedal is very random. The PO of my car had a shop rebuild the the brakes at each wheel and they did a great job. They replaced all of the cylinders, shoes and hardware at all wheels. I've adjusted the shoes and the pedal is nice and firm and the car stops straight and great. The problem is that the point that the brakes engage is random on the pedal. Sometimes they go straight to the floor but the next pump of the pedal they are up to the top. Sometimes they are half way down and at times they are at the top like they should be. It's very random. The master cylinder appears to be the original so I think my first step will be to replace it but I was curious as to what the OP of this thread did to correct the problem. I have no problem replacing the m/c but I don't want to do it if I don't have to. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
_________________
73 Thing
71 Karmann Ghia (2.2L Subaru Conversion)
72 Deluxe Transporter
Huntington WV
Member of The Wagenfolks

[BNMike]

This is one of the projects that Hermann is going to get this Winter. I've got all 4 new wheel, and a Master cylinder.

BNMike

[alex77]

it sound like your brake master cyl is loosing pressure. That is why the second time you press on the brake pedal it feels better. Do you have a functional brake warning light?
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91 mexibeetle

[kubelmann]

Other than OE German master cylinder units the other (country of origin) outlander units fail just some sooner than others.

[Wildthings]

Press the pedal slowly and see what happens.