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Home Team Van
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2008
Posts: 465
Location: wilmington, nc
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
| wasserbox wrote: |
| shenan-agon wrote: |
edit: I do like the sound of the key-in solution on Brent Weide's page, though. |
http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/HTML/04/09/01.html
It's a good solution, but overly complicated if you're using an aftermarket stereo. Basically, use step 2-4, get a 18ga wire-tap from Radio Shack, and connect your radio's +12v Switched (usually Red) wire to the referenced wire from the ignition. Leave the 12v constant wire (yellow on aftermarket radios) connected to the factory wiring harness 12v+. |
A side question...when turned on, do most aftermarket stereos pull the bulk of their power through the constant 12V or the turn-on lead? I'm assuming the constant, and the turn-on acts as basically just a relay switch...but I could be wrong. Just want to make sure the head unit is getting most of its juice from the aux battery, and not the main. |
The 12volt constant(yellow wire on your radio harness) is for the memory. It draws very little. The red is the wire you want hooked up to your aux battery.
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wasserbox
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 533
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
| I'm assuming the constant, |
Yep. |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3460
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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here is my problem...
My CD/Receiver unit the light is always ON even it I turn it OFF with the ignition key off. I tried to rewire it but another problem came up. This time the light does turn OFF when I turn the unit OFF but... all settings, programmed radio stations are gone too. I stop searching and re-wire it back as before and now turn the receiver OFF by hitting the face plate disconnect button...
but here another mystery... I installed the very same unit in my other car (735iL), there is no problem at all...Ignition key OFF, its OFF, no light, settings stay...
go figure |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 0to60in6min wrote: |
here is my problem...
My CD/Receiver unit the light is always ON even it I turn it OFF with the ignition key off. I tried to rewire it but another problem came up. This time the light does turn OFF when I turn the unit OFF but... all settings, programmed radio stations are gone too. I stop searching and re-wire it back as before and now turn the receiver OFF by hitting the face plate disconnect button...
but here another mystery... I installed the very same unit in my other car (735iL), there is no problem at all...Ignition key OFF, its OFF, no light, settings stay...
go figure |
If you look at the wiring diagram for any head unit (as mentioned above) there is a red and a yellow wire. The red wire is the main power and can be connected to a switched source. The yellow wire requires a constant power source to retain memory and settings. Wire these correctly and you won't have any problems.
ALL radios today have a way to turn off the display when the radio is off. You just need to read your manual to figure out how to set it this way. I can't believe so many people have problems with this. Do you really think the manufacturers would design them so a seperate manual switch needs to be installed to turn off the radio? Come on people, this is a no brainer. Learn how to use your equipment! (end of rant)
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shenan-agon
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 429
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| wasserbox wrote: |
| shenan-agon wrote: |
| I'm assuming the constant, |
Yep. |
Hmm, two competing answers... 
I think I'll wire them both to the aux battery to be safe. |
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Home Team Van
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2008
Posts: 465
Location: wilmington, nc
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
| wasserbox wrote: |
| shenan-agon wrote: |
| I'm assuming the constant, |
Yep. |
Hmm, two competing answers...
I think I'll wire them both to the aux battery to be safe. |
The 12 volt constant(yellow wire) does not provide the main power for the unit. It can be hooked to the starting batt or the aux batt.  The red wire does provide the main power and is the one you want to hook to the aux battery. If hooked directly though it will not be switched and you'll need to turn the radio off everytime you get out of the van. Does that help?
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koolmoe
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 382
Location: Annapolis, MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I think I'll wire them both to the aux battery to be safe. |
This was the primary motivation for me to finally do the aux battery install. I had only read about the 'key in' tweak but wasn't confident to go that far, so I just ran everything to the aux battery. Works just fine.
Were I to re-do it, I like the fuseblock or fan switch/tap idea...
KM
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Current: 1990 Westy GL (Savannah. Good to be back!)
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from '87-'91: 1980 VW Rabbit (my econoPorsche - passed on) |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Home Team Van wrote: |
The 12volt constant(yellow wire on your radio harness) is for the memory. It draws very little. The red is the wire you want hooked up to your aux battery. |
It depends on how you want your radio to work.
All the current is drawn from the yellow wire. If you want to listen to your stereo on Aux, run yellow to Aux. If you want the stereo to go on/off with the ignition, run the red to the fan switch.
If you run both to aux, then you will have the problem the original poster had. Stereo stays on and drains battery when car is off, only you are drawing on the aux, not the main.
Mine works just like a normal car. Put key on accessory to listen to the radio. All the dash is powered by the aux so no drain on main.
You could get fancy with a diode so you could have your cake and eat it too, but I'm no an EE. |
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wasserbox
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 533
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| shenan-agon wrote: |
I think I'll wire them both to the aux battery to be safe. |
If you wire them both to the AUX battery, you will be in the "always on" scenario.
Here is the wiring diagram for a Pioneer head unit...
Look at the constant yellow wire. See the big 10A inline fuse? If the majority of the power for the head unit was supplied by the red "switched power" wire, wouldn't the fuse be on that link? |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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You should check the size of the inline fuse on your red wire and see what size it is. It has always been my experience that the red wire is a larger wire than the yellow wire, hence it would carry more current. Looking at your diagram what you say makes sense, but in real life what I have seen is different. The yellow wire will always be energized to provide power, but the red wire draws the most current for the amplifier section, otherwise, why would you have two wires and one be switched?
I have my Alpine radio connected so that the yellow comes from constant dash power from the main battery, and the red is connected to the aux. battery. I can play the stereo all day with very little draw down on the main battery, while the aux. battery drops significantly in voltage. This leads me to believe the red is the power for the amplifier.
I have also set the controls so that the display goes off when the radio is off. Anytime I leave the van I also remove the face plate. I don't understand the difficulty with someone learning how to operate their system and remembering to turn off the radio when you leave the car. (end of rant 2)
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wasserbox
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Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 533
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
why would you have two wires and one be switched?
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Have you ever installed an amplifier?
You have one wire that is the constant power from the battery. You have a second wire that is the turn-on signal (switched) from the head unit.
In your scenario, all the power for the amp would be coming along the switched blue wire.
Same thing as relaying the headlights... You have a constant high power charge going to the headlight relay at all times, but the headlights only come on when the relay receives the much smaller signal to allow that main current to flow.
-->Edit<-- FWIW - I have read that it USED to work the way you are describing, but Car Audio mfgrs changed it about 15 years ago. |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| wasserbox wrote: |
| PDXWesty wrote: |
why would you have two wires and one be switched?
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Have you ever installed an amplifier?
You have one wire that is the constant power from the battery. You have a second wire that is the turn-on signal (switched) from the head unit.
In your scenario, all the power for the amp would be coming along the switched blue wire.
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I'm saying exactly what you are saying when talking about the head unit. The red wire is the power to the amplifier section and the yellow is the power for switching. The blue which I never mentioned is an external switching lead.
You're indicating in your last post that the yellow is the main power, but that isn't what you just said in this post.
I've probably installed two dozen stereo systems in all types of cars. I've never seen a yellow wire that is the main amplifier power for a head unit.
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wasserbox
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 533
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
You're indicating in your last post that the yellow is the main power, but that isn't what you just said in this post. |
I thought that was exactly what I said, giving two different examples.
| PDXWesty wrote: |
I've probably installed two dozen stereo systems in all types of cars. |
Yeah - this ain't my first rodeo either.
This is stupid. Neither of us (apparently) are Electrical engineers, nor design stereo's for Alpine.
Do whatever you want. I really don't care - I just know that the way mine is wired has worked for 15 years and is really convenient with no need to take off faceplates or hold power buttons for 15 seconds after I get out of the van.
If you enjoy that kind of thing, more power (no pun intended) to you. |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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I think we both understand the wiring, we're confusing ourselves with terms and definitions of "switched lead" and whether it's internal or external and what the color is. I don't think the red wire on a head unit works as a switched lead the same as the blue wire does for an amplifier. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's my understanding. The red wire is typically larger unless they have now changed the standards.
And I am an engineer, so I unfortunately like to talk about technical things, but it's not contributing to the post any longer. I'll see if I can dig up any additional manufacturer info.
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Wow, lots of confusion.
Nice and slow.
Yellow draws the current. (12v constant)
Red turns the radio on an off. (ignition)
Read the diagram posted above.
| Quote: |
| The 12 volt constant(yellow wire) does not provide the main power for the unit. It can be hooked to the starting batt or the aux batt. The red wire does provide the main power and is the one you want to hook to the aux battery. If hooked directly though it will not be switched and you'll need to turn the radio off everytime you get out of the van. Does that help? |
That's just plain wrong. You have it backwards.[/quote] |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6344
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Home Team Van wrote: |
The 12 volt constant(yellow wire) does not provide the main power for the unit. It can be hooked to the starting batt or the aux batt. The red wire does provide the main power and is the one you want to hook to the aux battery. If hooked directly though it will not be switched and you'll need to turn the radio off everytime you get out of the van. Does that help? |
I agree with Home Team Van. This is how every radio I have installed operates. The red wire is bigger than the yellow wire. I didn't think it was just a switched lead.
What you're saying totally makes sense though. I have been known ocassionally to be wrong! 
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10812
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| .....I've probably installed two dozen stereo systems in all types of cars. I've never seen a yellow wire that is the main amplifier power for a head unit. |
Wanna visit to Seattle and help me with #13?  Panasonic for example uses the yellow wire for both 'memory' AND for the main power, and the little red wire is used to get the unit up and running, thus it doesn't tax the existing ACC circuit. Makes sense, but can be confusing when discussing on a forum. Here's a photo where you can guess the same from the wire sizes and labels.
Been reading this post and my head is spinning, I wouldn't be suprised if this has "already been said", somehow.
Actually what I was looking for, was info the "key in ignition" project of the "weide" website. http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/HTML/04/09/01.html
Been searching awile and found the info I needed. To clarify and give a photo right at the top, I created a new thread called "Key in Ignition (12v supply)". http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4981254#4981254
Tom
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BushChicken
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Joined: March 11, 2010
Posts: 250
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| Home Team Van wrote: |
The 12 volt constant(yellow wire) does not provide the main power for the unit. It can be hooked to the starting batt or the aux batt. The red wire does provide the main power and is the one you want to hook to the aux battery. If hooked directly though it will not be switched and you'll need to turn the radio off everytime you get out of the van. Does that help? |
I agree with Home Team Van. This is how every radio I have installed operates. The red wire is bigger than the yellow wire. I didn't think it was just a switched lead.
What you're saying totally makes sense though. I have been known ocassionally to be wrong! |
I think color conventions are muddying this up a bit. On all of the Pioneer stereos I have done (quite a few) the yellow wire is the bigger wire with the inline fuse (if it has one). Sodo and buildyourown have it correct according to the color conventions I am familiar with, but PDXWesty also sounds correct, I just think his color codes are different than the ones I have seen.
I think we all mostly agree that the larger wire (of the red and yellow) is the one that draws the current when it is on and the smaller wire is the 'trigger' wire, i.e. it needs to be powered to allow the stereo to function. |
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