| Author |
Message |
durfeec
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: Mio, MI
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: Quick Engine Tin Question |
 |
|
http://www.vw-resource.com/engine_tin.html
i have been using the above site to help purchase tins from a fellow samba member. its just easier so we dont have to question what the other person is talking about.
last time i bought tins, i got the exact same tins in the diagram and the #33 and #30 left a gap by the pulley so they werent the right pair.
so now im looking for some 1600dp tins for a bus i just bought and wanna make sure before i buy them that i have the correct ones.
i would like to make sure that i get the correct #30 for a bus. here are the pics of the #33 he has and three different #30s i have to choose from.
#33
#30s
_________________
1960 Bus Panel/Camper |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12678
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
the 68 & later rear tin matches a different under pulley tin than 67 & earlier.
some info:
top: '67 beetle with 38mm pre-heat holes both sides for dual 1" pre-heat hoses
middle: 1500 pre 1966 bus, with pre-heat hole on left (as seen in driving direction)
(40hp fresh air rear tin looks very similar, but the heat riser spacing is about 1/2 inch narrower)
There is a 66 ish bus version with pre-heat hole on right
There is also a late 66 - 67 bus version with no pre-heat hole, as the heat is picked up from the right heater box.
bottom: 1600 bug/bus has larger pre-heat hole, on right, for 2" pre-heat hose
The shape where it fits to the under pulley tin is also different.
40hp vs 1500 rear engine tin ^^^^
Both of these ones have a left hole for 1" pre-heat tube.
They look very similar, but the 40hp version will NOT fit on a 1600.
The heat riser areas are closer together on the 40hp tin (black in pic)
There is a bump in the tin near the pre-heat hole, but the 1600 tin (dirty in pic) has a bump on he side w/o the pre-heat hole as well.
66 :
Set of freshly powdercoated tin for my Dad's 63 SC ^^^^
Yes, lots of bits of tin, including the left air cleaner piece for on top of the carb, doghouse set up including 'Hoover bit', and tin for left 1" pre-heat tube.
There were a few we forgot!
hope this helps
what year is your bus?
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durfeec
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: Mio, MI
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
the bus is a Brazilian bay/split. it uses a pre-67 drivetrain. im putting a 1600dp in it.
thank you for the help. as far as i can tell i need the middle one in my pictures. it matches up with the one for pre 66 buses.
another question. what is the hole in the deflector tin for?
_________________
1960 Bus Panel/Camper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26439
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| durfeec wrote: |
another question. what is the hole in the deflector tin for? |
For the preheat tube (see tube to left of that tin) that the preheat paper tubing attaches to and goes up through the rear engine tin to the air cleaner.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durfeec
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: Mio, MI
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
how come some deflectors have holes and some dont? does one work better than the other?
_________________
1960 Bus Panel/Camper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26439
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you read Clara's explanation above, early had left preheat pipe, and left hanging air cleaner, later 1500 had tube and cleaner on the right, and 66-67 had no tube because the right HE supplied the hot air.
Do not think that any of the mentioned is exactly better than the one before.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is a great description to engine tin thanks Clara & others but I guess I need more help seeing and understanding the small details. I think the one labeled 1600 beetle/bus that Clara listed below is the correct one for my 67 bus but is that also for the duel port?
Other question: is tin relative to engine size or to model of vehicle such as Beetle, Super Beetle vs Split bus small hatch large hatch and 67 only? Or as I am guessing everything is relative.
I have a Super Beetle engine a 1600DP in a 67 bus therefore which tin do I look for first? Do I track down the tin to the 1600DP first and then will that tin match the area of my 67 bus or the other way around?
I would also like to locate the other half to this diagram (the buttons to the numbers) so I can learn what everything is called and stop asking all the time, to learn more about what I need, why I need it and what is interchangeable regarding engine tin.
I have some tin, no hardware to install it and want to identify the correct tin and then I'll start with WW hardware to get started.
I'll assume I need to be sure I have everything in this diagram for my particular arrangement.
http://www.vw-resource.com/engine_tin.html
| Clara wrote: |
the 68 & later rear tin matches a different under pulley tin than 67 & earlier.
some info:
top: '67 beetle with 38mm pre-heat holes both sides for dual 1" pre-heat hoses
middle: 1500 pre 1966 bus, with pre-heat hole on left (as seen in driving direction)
(40hp fresh air rear tin looks very similar, but the heat riser spacing is about 1/2 inch narrower)
There is a 66 ish bus version with pre-heat hole on right
There is also a late 66 - 67 bus version with no pre-heat hole, as the heat is picked up from the right heater box.
bottom: 1600 bug/bus has larger pre-heat hole, on right, for 2" pre-heat hose
The shape where it fits to the under pulley tin is also different.
40hp vs 1500 rear engine tin ^^^^
Both of these ones have a left hole for 1" pre-heat tube.
They look very similar, but the 40hp version will NOT fit on a 1600.
The heat riser areas are closer together on the 40hp tin (black in pic)
There is a bump in the tin near the pre-heat hole, but the 1600 tin (dirty in pic) has a bump on he side w/o the pre-heat hole as well.
66 :
Set of freshly powdercoated tin for my Dad's 63 SC ^^^^
Yes, lots of bits of tin, including the left air cleaner piece for on top of the carb, doghouse set up including 'Hoover bit', and tin for left 1" pre-heat tube.
There were a few we forgot!
hope this helps
what year is your bus? |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters 
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26439
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
This is a great description to engine tin thanks Clara & others but I guess I need more help seeing and understanding the small details. I think the one labeled 1600 beetle/bus that Clara listed below is the correct one for my 67 bus but is that also for the duel port?
Other question: is tin relative to engine size or to model of vehicle such as Beetle, Super Beetle vs Split bus small hatch large hatch and 67 only? Or as I am guessing everything is relative.
I have a Super Beetle engine a 1600DP in a 67 bus therefore which tin do I look for first? Do I track down the tin to the 1600DP first and then will that tin match the area of my 67 bus or the other way around?
I would also like to locate the other half to this diagram (the buttons to the numbers) so I can learn what everything is called and stop asking all the time, to learn more about what I need, why I need it and what is interchangeable regarding engine tin. |
Choice of tins all depends on how much you want to go back to full stock or just enough to work with the earlier air cleaner. You do as little as to punch a hole thru the DP front tin to hook up a 1967 only heat exchanger and use a couple of tin can lids to close up the later larger pre-heat tube hole in the post-1967 rear tin.
Rear engine tin is more relative to both engine size and model, but the more toward the front the more it is the same with some few exceptions like DH cooling exhaust tube or 1967 bus pre-heat hole in front tin. Except for the fan shroud, and pulley cover tin, the 40HP tin is different widths (due to shorter crankshaft stroke) from the 1300/1500/1600/DP tins, so will not fit at all properly.
You can access the VW dealer parts manuals here:
http://www.oacdp.org/
Using the type 2 and type 1 (the latter is for now available thru the "Upcoming" button at the top of that website) parts manuals, you can get into the official parts names, models, size of engine, and chassi to chassi used.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12678
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
I have a Super Beetle engine a 1600DP in a 67 bus therefore which tin do I look for first
| Clara wrote: |
Set of freshly powdercoated tin for my Dad's 63 SC ^^^^
|
|
The set for my Dad's sc was not stock for a 63, but is a mismash to have a DP and doghouse in a 63 bus with 63 left 1500 air cleaner. Wanted the better cooling with the doghouse.
If you have a 1600 DP, then you want the 1600 DP head tin. The hole for the manifold is bigger for DP than SP.
Is it going to be doghouse? then you want the doghouse stuff.
For a 67, are you going to run a 67 air cleaner?
Are you going to run the pre-heat off the heat riser like a 67 Bus? If so you can use the 67 rear BUS tin (no pre-heat holes), the pulley tin to match, drill a hole in the doghouse front tin.
(67 BUG rear tin had two pre-heat holes, 67 BUS rear tin had zero pre-heat holes)
I run the straight breather, so I can run the earlier under tin that are not notched. With pre-heat off the heater box, use the ones w/o oval holes.
Rumour is having all the tin makes for better cooling.
hope that helps. 
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19938
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Stock ’67 bus pre-heater set up. Notice flange on heaterbox for paper preheat pipe.
’65 Only preheat on left side
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Below is my 1971 super beetle 1600DP engine I have since this photo relocated the fuel filter to outside the bus for fire prevention. I have some tin as you can see and I have the stock 67 oil bath air filter system I will be installing.
Is this the correct rear tin? And can I assume the tin is matched to the engine and that will fit my 67 bus?
Stock muffler and tail piece.
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
I found this video which is my engine and it helps me figure out my puzzle.
Link
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12678
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Below is my 1971 super beetle 1600DP engine I have since this photo relocated the fuel filter to outside the bus for fire prevention. I have some tin as you can see and I have the stock 67 oil bath air filter system I will be installing.
Is this the correct rear tin? And can I assume the tin is matched to the engine and that will fit my 67 bus?
|
use that tin if you want to install an air cleaner with 2" pre-heat. This was not stock until 68 for a bus, 69 for a bug.
If you have a custom modified air cleaner like this, I'd use it in a split bus with 1600.
1600 tin fits the engine same as 1500. 1500 was stock for a 67.
what tin you use depends:
SP or DP?
doghouse or upright cooler?
what air cleaner?
pre-heat from left, right, front on not using pre-heat? stock 1" or later 2"
do you want the early lower tin w/o notch. or late with notch? you must use late with notch if you use the bent air breather. straight air breather is stock for 67.
Do you care if it has the stock for 67 air breather pipe? Functionally, no difference.
How stock 67 ish do you want the motor to look? If more stock 67, use an earlier tin and the earlier pulley tin. If you don't care, you can patch holes with extra bits screwed on.
You can bolts the 71 engine straight in. I posted the pic showing a complete tin set customised for the hybrid I was putting together. It was a 1600 DP with stock 63 1 ton left air cleaner with stock for 63 left pre-heat, and I wanted it complete and stock for 63 one ton looking as much as possible.
That meant finding different versions of some of the tin.
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Yes Clara, I have a similar oil bath air cleaner to your photo and I would like to use a preheat set up too. I'll assume preheat is a good setup being I don't fully understand what the preheat does. I want what I have to operate well and look similar to the 1500 stock motor. I had just duty for 2 days and did a lot of reading about this and I'm finally starting to understand a little more. I believe I have a doghouse fan cover and do not know the other style other than it is not as large.
Can you tell me what this little tin piece is called (he is reaching for in photo) and is it something I should buy as OG or new? I think that would be all I need to keep my engine cool regarding tin.
| Quote: |
use that tin if you want to install an air cleaner with 2" pre-heat. This was not stock until 68 for a bus, 69 for a bug.
If you have a custom modified air cleaner like this, I'd use it in a split bus with 1600.
1600 tin fits the engine same as 1500. 1500 was stock for a 67.
what tin you use depends:
SP or DP?
doghouse or upright cooler?
what air cleaner?
pre-heat from left, right, front on not using pre-heat? stock 1" or later 2"
do you want the early lower tin w/o notch. or late with notch? you must use late with notch if you use the bent air breather. straight air breather is stock for 67.
Do you care if it has the stock for 67 air breather pipe? Functionally, no difference.
How stock 67 ish do you want the motor to look? If more stock 67, use an earlier tin and the earlier pulley tin. If you don't care, you can patch holes with extra bits screwed on.
You can bolts the 71 engine straight in. I posted the pic showing a complete tin set customised for the hybrid I was putting together. It was a 1600 DP with stock 63 1 ton left air cleaner with stock for 63 left pre-heat, and I wanted it complete and stock for 63 one ton looking as much as possible.
That meant finding different versions of some of the tin. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26439
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
It is the sealing tins for the pre-heat pipe on the intake manifold. Though VW for some reason calls them a "Protection Plate".
You can find that and lots more if you just search for "Engine Tin" in the classifieds. Then just scan thru the three or so pages of parts. Problem of most sellers is they do not know the common terminology for parts or use regional slang term/s. So better to cast the net wide and do a little sorting.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Thanks Eric&Barb, big help as I did spend a few hrs at jury duty looking for them with no luck. I may have to buy them new but at least I have a name for them now 
I'm getting closer to fully understanding this "air-cooled" system and looking forward to a day off to install my tin's/hoses, heater boxes, stock muffler, oil bath air cleaner and several other parts. Thank you for all your help. This link has been good too:
http://www.vw-resource.com/heat4.html#problems
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
It is the sealing tins for the pre-heat pipe on the intake manifold. Though VW for some reason calls them a "Protection Plate".
You can find that and lots more if you just search for "Engine Tin" in the classifieds. Then just scan thru the three or so pages of parts. Problem of most sellers is they do not know the common terminology for parts or use regional slang term/s. So better to cast the net wide and do a little sorting. |
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12678
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
| LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Yes Clara, I have a similar oil bath air cleaner to your photo and I would like to use a preheat set up too. I'll assume preheat is a good setup being I don't fully understand what the preheat does. I want what I have to operate well and look similar to the 1500 stock motor. I had just duty for 2 days and did a lot of reading about this and I'm finally starting to understand a little more. I believe I have a doghouse fan cover and do not know the other style other than it is not as large.
Can you tell me what this little tin piece is called (he is reaching for in photo) and is it something I should buy as OG or new? I think that would be all I need to keep my engine cool regarding tin.
|
I call it the heat riser tin, as it goes over the heat riser. Evidently there are a number of names for it. I would use og, and get the new insulation that goes in it :
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113119597
WW calls the tin 'heat riser covers'
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211119577
Pre-heat pre-warms the air going into the carb. This helps against carb icing. Carb icing makes the engine run badly, and stall out. Carb icing happens more in cool, damp weather. Not so much a problem over 70F VW say to prop the air cleaner flap open when the highs are above 70F. I have seen icing when it is damp in the 60s F. Not so much a problem in the desert. I always set up all the pre-heat stuff for better drivability.
Which tin you want depends on which version of the pre-heat you use.
2" - you need the late tin with bigger hole. The pic of the green engine compartment shows a 2" pre-heat hose coming off a 1500 bus air cleaner. This particular air cleaner was custom modified. These air cleaner all used the 1" hose from factory.
1"? on left, right or off the heater box?
| Quote: |
what tin you use depends:
SP or DP?
doghouse or upright cooler?
what air cleaner?
pre-heat from left, right, front on not using pre-heat?
stock 1" or later 2"
do you want the early lower tin w/o notch. or late with notch? you must use late with notch if you use the bent air breather. straight air breather is stock for 67.
Do you care if it has the stock for 67 air breather pipe? Functionally, no difference.
How stock 67 ish do you want the motor to look? If more stock 67, use an earlier tin and the earlier pulley tin. If you don't care, you can patch holes with extra bits screwed on.
That meant finding different versions of some of the tin. |
From the 67 owners manual, pre-heat tube runs forward, through front tin the heater box:
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 5660
Location: 1st Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Wow thanks again Clara, that explains so much now. When you said "Which tin you want depends on which version of the pre-heat you use." does the term version of pre-heat just mean diameter or something else in addition to the hose diameter? I'm finally home for a full day and I'll be laying out all the parts I have purchased over the years and I'll take good photos to determine what I have and what I should use. I'm fine with how it all looks I just want it to run well as well as originally designed and not hack up my engine area.
As I understand the heat from the pre-heat hose either 1" or 2" diameter coming from the exhaust pre-warms the air going into the carburetor and prevents icing which can make the engine run poorly I'll assume it can also remove the moisture in damp locations allowing the engine to run better as well. Did the German engineers add that air cleaner flap to keep that heat from causing trouble on hot days such as 90 degrees by switching it to the open position and are people removing that hose completely and plugging it up if they live in a super hot 100 degree desert?
_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
| Lind wrote: |
| Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26439
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
Means hose size, air cleaner used, and where the hose goes to what position on the engine, or how much one wants to make adapter/s or hack up parts.
Flap is mainly to shut off hot air flow at RPMs above idle. Have not noticed a fad to eliminate the flap to improve cooling (more to just dump parts that take too much time and care for some folks), and it is so helpful when in cooler humid conditions.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6883
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Quick Engine Tin Question |
|
|
I've found that VW engines run best in cool (not cold) humid air= the beach.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
