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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19824
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| i_am_cool_fred wrote: |
my feb. 58 bus is still a 58...no change 
wow, first time i looked at the month of mine...it's early  |
It's halfway through so it'd be a mid year. 
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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i_am_cool_fred
Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2004
Posts: 1743
Location: Benton, AR
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
| i_am_cool_fred wrote: |
my feb. 58 bus is still a 58...no change
wow, first time i looked at the month of mine...it's early |
It's halfway through so it'd be a mid year. |
 now i'm royally confused.
according to the chart on page one, and the chart in the technical section, it'd still be a 58 though correct??? this is what really confuses me about this whole year of production vs. year model thing.
my title says 58, the vin number says 58, it has/had pressed bumpers no indentions on any doors for door handles, it's a 58, not some stinkin' 59 
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proud owner of a defunct 1979 sunroof kombi
Brian Denning, as seen on Gearz TV |
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Snoop Bob
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2687
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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He is saying your Feb 58 bus is halfway between Aug 57 and July 58. It's a mid year 58. That's all, not an early 58.
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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Chris Paterson
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2010
Posts: 1068
Location: Newbury Park, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
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My single cab is 201560. The title states it's a 57' am I to believe now that it is a 56'? Or did I read that wrong?
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- Chris
58' PGSG |
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i_am_cool_fred
Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2004
Posts: 1743
Location: Benton, AR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mightymouse wrote: |
Its an early 58, dont worry.  |
thank god, cause if it was a late 58 i'd have to sell it
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proud owner of a defunct 1979 sunroof kombi
Brian Denning, as seen on Gearz TV |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19824
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ///Mink wrote: |
| I'm gonna go buy an August of '67 Bay window and insist on posting my questions in the Split Bus forum cause it's a '67. |
Sweet. I too prefer to wear my Sin City Mirage colored glasses when it comes to this seemingly difficult to address topic.
Better yet, have the DMV say it's a 67 then it will be fact.
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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mightymouse
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 4220
Location: las vegas
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| chrispaterson82 wrote: |
| My single cab is 201560. The title states it's a 57' am I to believe now that it is a 56'? Or did I read that wrong? |
Well hell, according to the bay window lovers in this thread you may as well call that a 57. I mean, it was made 4 months before the end of the year.... shit thats the next year id say.
Its a 56 dude. It is in my book, i dont care what the "specialists" have to say. I've likely pulled more buses out of fields than most of them will ever own.
Id almost be willing to bet cash money the "document" which has caused such a stir in this thread, was made up.
The last 40 years its been one way, with several books written and published about the subject, now ONE exclusive special and rare factory document surfaces and changes the world!!!! .......
NOT.
Shit hasnt changed. "You do it your way, and ill do it mine". sound familiar? thats whats thrown around every time someone mentions their thoughts in a lowered/narrowed/tubbed/raised/hacked thread.
So, since thats the mantra we shall stick with it.
If your DYING to have your bus be newer... go ahead.
For me it is what it is.
So far clara has said the best stuff in this thread. I know that because im passionate about stuff and am very vocal my opinion is looked at as "heavily biased" but its just the truth to most.
At the end of the day, i go out to my shop and i have an august 57 panel and a january 57 kombi.
I dont sit and chew my fingernails wondering if my panel should be known as a 58....
Just replying to what you asked chris, nothin negative toward you.
Just giving the whiners hell.
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson
Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters. |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71525
Location: Phoenix 602
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ben edwards
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2004
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject: TWO 56'S? |
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Let's see if I have this right! Vin #147170 is my 1956 Wolfsburg single cab, Vin #187850 is my 1956 Hanover production single cab. So both of my busses are 1956's?
Thanks, Ben |
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Snoop Bob
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2687
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: TWO 56'S? |
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| ben edwards wrote: |
Let's see if I have this right! Vin #147170 is my 1956 Wolfsburg single cab, Vin #187850 is my 1956 Hanover production single cab. So both of my busses are 1956's?
Thanks, Ben |
Correct.
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 10218
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mightymouse wrote: |
| Id almost be willing to bet cash money the "document" which has caused such a stir in this thread, was made up. |
OK, I'll take your bet. how much would you like to bet? time to put your money where your mouth is.
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12608
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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| Lind wrote: |
...the book also shows the '54 model cutoff to be at the change from barndoor to post-barndoor. perhaps they were trying to avoid the confusion of whether a '55 is a barndoor or not. anyway, I don't agree with that cutoff, and I think that there are '55 barndoors. .....
this piece does contradict some of what is said in Progressive Refinements, but there are plenty of errors in progressive refinements, which can be easily proven. I believe that this piece is much stronger than PR.
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Basically, if you want to call this piece of paper THE source, you MUST accept the 55 bus model year starts in March 1955. You don't get to pick and choose.
Since you are picking and choosing, it is clear you don't really believe this to be a definitive piece of paper.
You are saying they retroactively changed the date for the beginning of the 55 model year. Well, maybe they did the same for other years. It makes it tidier. 
It sounds like you just like the idea of model year always being an Aug change. You give no reason for thinking this paper is more accurate than PR. I see some errors in PR, but I also see errors in most books I read. PR is also much longer than this booklet. I see VW spell bumpers as "bumbers". So, do I toss the whole book as garbage, or just say there's a typo, or an error? And if PR is so inaccurate, stop quoting it.
Yes, it can be tricky sometimes to figure stuff out, but it's fun to sort out the puzzle. I think so, at least.
Here it looks like you're cutting and trimming some pieces to make them fit.
From what I've seen, VW didn't really worry much about the model year in the fifties. The fact that you are so excited about finding a list of model year info shows this... why wasn't a concise list of model year dates in every book with production info? You know, right next to those lists of dates and what VINs were made in those months. It would be the obvious place for it, but it's not there. Why did they put certain info in PR, and conflicting info in this booklet? It seems pretty clear when you look at the info (and lack of info) and realise that VW was not really placing much emphasis on the model year concept. In fact, it's pretty hard to really think otherwise.
VW made changes whenever they liked, and many big and little changes were definately NOT for model years. Model year wasn't even incorporated into the VIN until the 1965 model year.
VW just didn't give much of a fuck about it.
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mightymouse
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 4220
Location: las vegas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
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How bout this, ill check out the document at red barn and ill buy you a beer.
I really dont care, i just feel like clara does about it. Theres more proof that vw and america didnt give 2 shits until pretty far into the 60s. I have said it enough, the horse is a pulp now.
.
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson
Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters. |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 10218
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Re: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. |
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| Clara wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
...the book also shows the '54 model cutoff to be at the change from barndoor to post-barndoor. perhaps they were trying to avoid the confusion of whether a '55 is a barndoor or not. anyway, I don't agree with that cutoff, and I think that there are '55 barndoors. .....
this piece does contradict some of what is said in Progressive Refinements, but there are plenty of errors in progressive refinements, which can be easily proven. I believe that this piece is much stronger than PR.
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Basically, if you want to call this piece of paper THE source, you MUST accept the 55 bus model year starts in March 1955. You don't get to pick and choose.
Since you are picking and choosing, it is clear you don't really believe this to be a definitive piece of paper.
You are saying they retroactively changed the date for the beginning of the 55 model year. Well, maybe they did the same for other years. It makes it tidier.
It sounds like you just like the idea of model year always being an Aug change. You give no reason for thinking this paper is more accurate than PR. I see some errors in PR, but I also see errors in most books I read. PR is also much longer than this booklet. I see VW spell bumpers as "bumbers". So, do I toss the whole book as garbage, or just say there's a typo, or an error? And if PR is so inaccurate, stop quoting it.
Yes, it can be tricky sometimes to figure stuff out, but it's fun to sort out the puzzle. I think so, at least.
Here it looks like you're cutting and trimming some pieces to make them fit.
From what I've seen, VW didn't really worry much about the model year in the fifties. The fact that you are so excited about finding a list of model year info shows this... why wasn't a concise list of model year dates in every book with production info? You know, right next to those lists of dates and what VINs were made in those months. It would be the obvious place for it, but it's not there. Why did they put certain info in PR, and conflicting info in this booklet? It seems pretty clear when you look at the info (and lack of info) and realise that VW was not really placing much emphasis on the model year concept. In fact, it's pretty hard to really think otherwise.
VW made changes whenever they liked, and many big and little changes were definately NOT for model years. Model year wasn't even incorporated into the VIN until the 1965 model year.
VW just didn't give much of a fuck about it. |
OK then, if you want to play that way then you don't get to pick and choose from progressive refinements either, if you believe one word of it you have to believe it all. take that.....
in all seriousness, there are errors in many pieces of VW literature, and nothing is to be taken as the word of god (unless it is an interview with Nordhoff). I look at it as there is a body of evidence. it can be argued multiple ways. someone would have a lots stronger argument that their car is one year later than one year earlier, since the title is generated from the dealership info, not by the factory info.
there is one change that VW was fairly consistent on starting with the first "model year" that change is the colors. with only a couple exceptions, they would change the colors for the bugs and buses on august first at the model year change. sure, they didn't care much about it, but they did care enough to conform some of their less important changes so the dealers could show some differences to prospective customers, even if it was just a color.
at the end of the day, if you call your mango bus a '58, you are a poser. if you call your mango bus a septemeber '58, you are a technical-geek. if you call your mango bus an early '59, you are somewhat less technical-geeky. if you call your PG/SG bus a '59, then you need to go get your title/registration fixed at the DMV
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hugheseum
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2004
Posts: 2690
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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right on lind........so this thread still is about nothing then right?
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jeremy57ride
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Joined: May 23, 2005
Posts: 1336
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Correct me if I am wrong...doesn't this all come back to the Beetle in 1955?
Sorry if I missed it here, but I know I read somewhere that VW put the chrome towel bars on the bumpers to compete with the amercan chrome of the day...and the small "egg" tailights on the 55 were very hard to see. So the production was rushed to put the higher snowflakes out in Aug of 55...but they were sold as 1956 (Aug 55 build date).
So the bus folks are innocent bistanders. He we are 56 years (ironically) later debating model years.
WHO CARES? If anyone buys a 56 year old anything and is misled because of this mess...they should've done their research.
I wanted a split camper for years...you think I would've bought a 67 BAY window...because I didn't understand the model year? Nope...not me, I'm very crafty...and also observant, I can tell a split from a Bay even in bad light. |
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mightymouse
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 4220
Location: las vegas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| hugheseum wrote: |
| right on lind........so this thread still is about nothing then right? |
Yes but thats what "debates" are for. They even teach it in schools. We as humans dont all see things the same, to do so we would have to be robots.
So we debate a subject matter whenever 2 opposing views arise. Its what makes life interesting and fun.
Some of my best debates have been with close friends, because we mostly agree on everything. Key is for neither party to take the debate personally.
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson
Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters. |
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Ran When Parked
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 781
Location: Birmingham, AL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: This was informational |
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Why doesn't VW put the model year on the birth certificates?
They have everything else on it.
I found this thread right before I was going to start one, "Build Year vs. Model Year". I noticed the topic mentioned in other threads and some debate. I wanted a definitive answer (that my Oct '55 is a '55 - as that sounds cool!)
Thank to all for doing the research. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20827
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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They don't put a model year on the birth cert. because it was not an established thing at the time of production. Model year was based loosely on production dates versus delivery dates. Somewhere in the mid 60's (I'm sure it's buried in this thread somewhere) they started calling the start of model year August 1st. That is common practice today.
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Big Bill
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Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 1802
Location: Fortuna Calif.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Reading just the last page of this thread makes my head hurt. In the Pre-Samba days info like this was pretty nonexistence for people back then, and I also think sometimes the DMV would get the date of manufacture wrong on a Pink Slip or Registration.
I had what I thought was a 58 Double Cab because the Registration or Pink(cant recall which) said it was. It really was a 59 as I found out years later. |
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