Rear Disc Brakes, no Instructions. What am I doing wrong?

bob cook · Samba Member Joined: March 07, 2006 Posts: 650

part list

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject:

Thanks!

Got it, book marked it.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

JustBuggy · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 am Post subject:

dan macmillan · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:30 am Post subject:

This may help you,

Had a similar prob with my 75 irs chassis and empi disc w/ park brakes.
The instructions supplied were wrong,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The circled shim will ruin the sealing ring of the sealed bearing and the spacer is all wrong.

On a recent conversion I did, the parts were poorly made by EMPI.
4 wheel disk brakes with park brakes. 75 type 1 chassis, IRS/ball joints, Chevy-Porsche rotors.

Problem 3...Instructions for IRS wrong, they are written for swing axle and footnotes for IRS are wrong and incomplete. Seal does not ride on the spacer properly. rotor will not center in caliper support.
This is assembled as per inst.

The fix
IRS seal sits farther out in housing than swing

The inner thin spacer and small O-ring are not used,The thin spacer can damage the "seal" of the sealed bearing. By using a seal spacer from a swing axle setup [wider one] it ensures the seal is in full contact with the spacer.

If you still need to move the rotor out farther, put the circled spacer between the "swing" spacer and the rotor.

The supplied washers go between the caliper support and the caliper adapter bracket.

Rear "floating caliper" position.

Hope this helps for anyone having issues.

I documented the problems and my supplier forwarded it to EMPI. EMPI is aware of the problem, but I would not expect them to correct it anytime soon.

Here is problem 1
Rotor will not go on all the way

The fix

Problem 2 Caliper will not mount, hits support bracket before holes line up.

The fix

_________________
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
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Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
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66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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joescoolcustoms · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:55 am Post subject:

It is a good thing most VW hobbist are also machinist/engineers/pro mechanics or we would never get any aftermarket part to fit. It is pitiful when we pay $ 400 for a disc brake set AND still have to re-work them just to get them to fit properly.

Thanks for the info and "look here" tips.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

jaymonkey · Samba Member Joined: September 13, 2005 Posts: 433

It's really nuts. There is no way a person could have got this "kit" to work without altering it.

spacers wouldn't have helped. I removed material off the caliper mounting surface (indicated by the awesome arrow)

This picture is BEFORE I filed material off (1/16th plus ). It's now almost centred.

I haven't had the buggy running yet but the brakes are bled and everything seems good. I'll keep it in mind and won't be driving this like a banshee until it gains my trust.

_________________
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1953 Kombi 23A -Sold
1969 Buggy Sold
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insta @boldroguebuggy

JustBuggy · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:58 am Post subject:

Dan, Thank You so much for documenting this! Cool

I can see that there is no way the rear disk kit I got is going to be installed in one afternoon like I thought it would. You've saved me from great dissapointment in that thought. Now I'm just PISSED OFF!

It's incredible that one should have to do this at all. Back in the days when I was messing with US hot rods I never saw anything like this. WTF are these guys thinking releasing a "Bolt On" product that in no way shape or form can be simply bolted on!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad

At least I know in advance what I'll be up against when I do get around to this .....
Sad

kustoms · Samba Member Joined: November 20, 2003 Posts: 1313

Thought I would post this. I know its an issue.
Here is the solution CB Performance has for the thicker bracket. They are shims to push the bearings out.

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And wondering what the heck happen to my Samba post count?!?
Tom Thompson
Tijuana Kustoms Inc. (TM)
1-516-338-8746
www.tjkustoms.com

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:22 am Post subject:

Tom, can you post the thickness of those shims?
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

kustoms · Samba Member Joined: November 20, 2003 Posts: 1313

JiI · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:23 am Post subject:

So Cal Imports now supplies spacers you put behind the bearing race to space the rotor out a bit. This is for front end bearings but I'm sure they work in a similar manner.
Jeff

wvbowtieman · Samba Member Joined: September 16, 2010 Posts: 195

kustoms · Samba Member Joined: November 20, 2003 Posts: 1313

They come with the kit. You have to ask for them.
_________________
Google this.
"Bread and Circuses"

And wondering what the heck happen to my Samba post count?!?
Tom Thompson
Tijuana Kustoms Inc. (TM)
1-516-338-8746
www.tjkustoms.com

JustBuggy · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:21 am Post subject:

I'm not quite clear on where the shims go. Is it between the bearing and the seal rider/spacer?

kustoms · Samba Member Joined: November 20, 2003 Posts: 1313

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:21 am Post subject:

Received the SS Braided lines in from Pete at Air Kewled last week and David and I installed his on his swing axle. We have not yet received the shims in from CB performance like what Tom shows above, so the final, final install is not done, but all that is lacking is the two shims and final torque of the bolts.

After looking at the disc's and how everything fit, David decided to install the callipers in the 12 O'clock position. He stated that to him, from the rear, they look like a after thought installation in the rear 3/9 O'clock position, like a big chunk caught up in the wheel. Installed on the top, they becone slightly hidden and up out of the way.

We installed the lines Pete made and they are SWEET! Very clean install, very high quality (remember, you get what you pay for) and fit like they were made for this disc brake set.

NOTE: These lines will fit with the discs installed like we did at 12 O'clock ot at the 3/9 O'clock position. So, if you like them in the rear, these will fit and be a clean install.

Davids buggy build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=446039

_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

JustBuggy · Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject:

Well, I finally got around to starting my rear disk brake kit install this
afternoon. Worked on it for ~4 hrs and made sure that everything was going to fit well.

Here are some of the things I had to adjust to make it work:

1. The large holes in the bracket were not big enough to allow the bracket to install over the machined lip. One side had to hogged out more than the other but no way were they going on as is.

2. The inner diameter on the bearing shims were too small to fit over the axle stub. These were just slightly enlarged.

3. The calipers both would not allow the spacer to be installed as they both had interferance with the disks. I ended up grinding away the two small tabs on the inside of the caliper as described in a previous post.

4. It is quite comical the way the instructions tell you to install the brake lines that are supplied. There should be a 90* fitting so that the hose can be more readily aimed back toward the swing arm being that the hole that it is screwed into on the caliper is aiming the exact opposite way.

To remedy that I'll be picking up a special braided stainless steel hose and a 90* fitting.

Besides all of this, since I was warned about it, I didn't sweat this install. It's looking really good. I can hardly wait to try the new brakes out!

Bub · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:40 am Post subject:

dan macmillan · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

Bub, see my post above re: the front rotors rubbing on the brackets.
_________________
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone

JustBuggy · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject:

Got everything finally hooked up and adjusted this afternoon. Next order of business is to bleed the brake system. I went through a can and a half of brake fluid and still can't seem to get any pedal!

This really ticks me off!!!! Tomorrow, I'm going to try making a pressure bleeder and see how that works.


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Rear Disc Brakes, no Instructions. What am I doing wrong?
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