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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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I have a bus I am doing which is wavy because some PO blasted the thing in and out and distorted all the panels, but especially the flat panels, which on a bus is most of them.
Anyway, the waves are about 1/16" deep measured at center at the most, other than filling them what can be done? R&Ring them is not going to happen, so what other option is there?
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2345
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Are the waves in at points that are not near support points (ie. uprights and the such)?
I have heard of people being able to heat and shrink the metal by quenching it with water once hot. I guess this in effect tightens the metal back up. Not something I would want to try on my bus without loads of practice.
gordo.
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18056
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Realistically, you will have to skim coat it with filler and block sand them flat with the Long boards like they do on Overhauling.
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Realistically, you will have to skim coat it with filler and block sand them flat with the Long boards like they do on Overhauling. |
That's what I thought. The waves are between the ribs. I tried heating and shrinking but it does not really work, it just causes it to sink more.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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type241
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: MOSES LAKE, WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Buy a shrinking disc and hit the high spots whether on inside or out. Works great. Youtube shrinking disc. You will be absolutely amazed. I got the 4.5" for my Makita. I use an air nozzle to rapid cool the areas. |
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roadkingdoc
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Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 911
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| i had the same problem. i used a guide coat, long block sanded, hit the high spots with a SHRINKING DISC. it did the trick. i needed filler but not nearly as much. type241 is right on! |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| roadkingdoc wrote: |
| i had the same problem. i used a guide coat, long block sanded, hit the high spots with a SHRINKING DISC. it did the trick. i needed filler but not nearly as much. type241 is right on! |
I'll give it a whirl. I have a shrinking disc, so we shall see. Thanks all.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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543fold
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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It is very hard to tell if the panel is actually stretched too much or shrunk.
Sometimes when I can't tell which way it needs to go, I tend to over stretch the area then start shrinking...especially with a shrinking disc.
I have an example of a bug a customer just brought me...he also had it sandblasted which warped the panels plus the roof had hail damage.
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AZ65CalBug
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Joined: December 08, 2001
Posts: 708
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, you're making me want to strip my car down again and do the disc thing just to have the metal glossy/mirror like that! haha
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543fold
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| AZ65CalBug wrote: |
| Damn, you're making me want to strip my car down again and do the disc thing just to have the metal glossy/mirror like that! haha |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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The roof looks nice. If and when you shot high build on it and a guide coat did it come out perfect or did you have to use a skim coat of filler to perfect it? Or were you able to get by with blocking it?
No matter how much I try on this bus I cannot get those damn flat panels to come out flat enough to escape the use of filler. Does that make me lame or what.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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543fold
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
The roof looks nice. If and when you shot high build on it and a guide coat did it come out perfect or did you have to use a skim coat of filler to perfect it? Or were you able to get by with blocking it?
No matter how much I try on this bus I cannot get those damn flat panels to come out flat enough to escape the use of filler. Does that make me lame or what. |
Thank you...the way I did it was like this, sand metal with 80 grit, 2 coats of epoxy, 3 coats high build. After blocking it was perfect...no filler needed. And in reality I really didn't need the high build primer.
Now you have to remember it is more difficult to make flat panels...flat! I don't care who you are you will use filler....Unless you do this kind of work every single day, it will be more of a challenge to get right.
Does this make you lame? Hell NO it dosen't!!! Good for you, on trying to metalwork the panels flat!!! Good luck to you, and if you have any more questions please feel free to ask!
Will
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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So here I am eight years later and I'm looking at yet another project in this case a 21 window bus with sandblasted warped long panel.
Like my earlier project the panel is pushed in between the vertical and horizontal ribs when viewed from outside.
There has also been a lower rocker repair done but my main concern is the upper two third shift of the orignal panel.
Since this is a high value bus and I'm doing it for someone else I don't want to fill with bondo but do it right.
So, I am trying to understand the dynamics behind the damage. I am assuming the panel was heated from inept blasting and pushed in by the force of the blasting causing the metal to stretch.
To repair it I assume I would need to apply heat to the BACKSIDE of the panel, where the low point it and then do what?
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1113
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| ...To repair it I assume I would need to apply heat to the BACKSIDE of the panel, where the low point it and then do what? |
A 9" shirinking disk will help bring the metal back into shape. Be careful if you use a shrinking disc because it's possible to go too far. There are quite a few good videos on YT on how to use the discs. Several of them are by Wray Schelin himself. I got my discs from him at Pro Shaper Sheet Metal LLC. Here is a link the the different kits he sells:
https://www.proshaper.com/product-category/shrinking-disc/
I used both the 9" and 5" discs to fix a badly damaged Ghia door. The disks are well made and Wray will answer the phone when you call with questions. I consider him to be the Norm Abrams of sheet metal, except he makes his own tools.
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Emil
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Evil_Fiz wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| ...To repair it I assume I would need to apply heat to the BACKSIDE of the panel, where the low point it and then do what? |
A 9" shirinking disk will help bring the metal back into shape. Be careful if you use a shrinking disc because it's possible to go too far. There are quite a few good videos on YT on how to use the discs. Several of them are by Wray Schelin himself. I got my discs from him at Pro Shaper Sheet Metal LLC. Here is a link the the different kits he sells:
https://www.proshaper.com/product-category/shrinking-disc/
I used both the 9" and 5" discs to fix a badly damaged Ghia door. The disks are well made and Wray will answer the phone when you call with questions. I consider him to be the Norm Abrams of sheet metal, except he makes his own tools.
-----
I will second this, very good information. They do work.
Emil |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1670
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Skim coat, hosing it down with poly primer, or metal finishing to perfection, is there a difference at auction as long as it’s straight? |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| Skim coat, hosing it down with poly primer, or metal finishing to perfection, is there a difference at auction as long as it’s straight? |
Not a single bit as we all know.
It only makes sense to try to metal finish it if you have a client willing to pay or if you are retired, have a lot of free time, and are looking for the challenge.
So I do have a shrinking disc, but I always though it was mostly for small distortions. Guess I need to look at more YouTube videos, but mostly I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with this situation and what techniques they used to level it.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11237
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| Skim coat, hosing it down with poly primer, or metal finishing to perfection, is there a difference at auction as long as it’s straight? |
Not a single bit as we all know.
It only makes sense to try to metal finish it if you have a client willing to pay or if you are retired, have a lot of free time, and are looking for the challenge.
So I do have a shrinking disc, but I always though it was mostly for small distortions. Guess I need to look at more YouTube videos, but mostly I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with this situation and what techniques they used to level it.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 Baja Bug
1962 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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peecee69
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 1595
Location: Annapolis, MD/Bloomfield Hills, MI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
So here I am eight years later and I'm looking at yet another project in this case a 21 window bus with sandblasted warped long panel.
Like my earlier project the panel is pushed in between the vertical and horizontal ribs when viewed from outside.
There has also been a lower rocker repair done but my main concern is the upper two third shift of the orignal panel.
Since this is a high value bus and I'm doing it for someone else I don't want to fill with bondo but do it right.
So, I am trying to understand the dynamics behind the damage. I am assuming the panel was heated from inept blasting and pushed in by the force of the blasting causing the metal to stretch.
To repair it I assume I would need to apply heat to the BACKSIDE of the panel, where the low point it and then do what? |
One correction - the panel was probably warped from heat, not from the force of the media. I bet if you call Wray to ask him about the panel, he may even offer some advice on how to attack the panel.
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Bulli Klinik
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Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 2254
Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Dealing with sandblasting waves |
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Post a picture of the damage after you take a long, stiff, flat sanding block or a body file across it. Some off-dolly work to lift the lows followed by more filing and more dolly work and more filing and more dolly work....Repeat as necessary.
It's a process of refinement and refinement takes time.
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