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SolarPoweredPickles
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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 Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:30 pm Post subject: Torsion arm & suspension question |
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Heya'll!
I'm at the point where I am putting on my torsion arms. I finally got my goodies from WW, beam and drop spindles. I am referencing the new narrowed adjustable beam to the stock beam and suspension (that was missing a ton of stuff) I have a couple manuals but they're not too thorough and the beams are a tad different.
It looks like the needle bearing is already pressed into the beam and I don't need those? Do I need the needle bearing inner race for each side? I see them on the diagrams (The upper right of the diagram near the shock) I've never installed torsion arms so any quick tips or things I can check would be appreciated... Thanks.
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bubblehead
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Joined: February 15, 2002
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Looks like you have the inner races on the arms already. Put on the rubber dust seals that go between arm and beam and the arms should slide right in. |
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j.pickens
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Joined: December 03, 2002
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Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Aren't the torsion leaves supposed to be welded at the ends?
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VWsArent4Hippies
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
| Aren't the torsion leaves supposed to be welded at the ends? |
Not necessarily. Most beams i've taken apart, where the torsion arms have the caps on the ends (66-67?) don't have welded torsions. Also, most people don't weld them after narrowing them.. |
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bubblehead
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
| Aren't the torsion leaves supposed to be welded at the ends? |
Yes that too!  With the handful of beams I've had apart, it seeems pretty common for those welds to break. Once the grub screws are cranked tight I doubt they'd even move but I wouldn't risk it. |
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bubblehead
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Joined: February 15, 2002
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Aren't the torsion leaves supposed to be welded at the ends? |
Not necessarily. Most beams i've taken apart, where the torsion arms have the caps on the ends (66-67?) don't have welded torsions. Also, most people don't weld them after narrowing them.. |
So you think maybe it was done just to simplify the assembly process? I've wondered about this and the effects of welding on spring steel as well. Still tacked mine back together though... |
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j.pickens
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Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps?
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
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SolarPoweredPickles
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
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joe56vw
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Joined: June 24, 2004
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Location: Olympia wa
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| electronictofu wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
are your trailing arms the capped style or the ones that are open on the ends?
if they are capped then you don't have to worry about it but if they aren't then I would weld the leaves just to be on the safe side
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j.pickens
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Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9831
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| joe56vw wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
are your trailing arms the capped style or the ones that are open on the ends?
if they are capped then you don't have to worry about it but if they aren't then I would weld the leaves just to be on the safe side |
Mine are uncapped and welded, I'm wondering about beams which are uncapped and unwelded.
_________________
Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
| If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
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campingbox 
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Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10261
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
| joe56vw wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
are your trailing arms the capped style or the ones that are open on the ends?
if they are capped then you don't have to worry about it but if they aren't then I would weld the leaves just to be on the safe side |
Mine are uncapped and welded, I'm wondering about beams which are uncapped and unwelded. |
I've seen the little springs walk out before, I think the worst one I saw was sticking about 2" out but that is very unusual. More often than not the welds are cracked, usually they stay in place. |
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SolarPoweredPickles
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| joe56vw wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
are your trailing arms the capped style or the ones that are open on the ends?
if they are capped then you don't have to worry about it but if they aren't then I would weld the leaves just to be on the safe side |
Mine are open at both ends, here are a couple photos with better light. Weld the leaves to the actual outer trailing arm hole where they pop out?
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j.pickens
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Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: |
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No, you even up the ends of the bundle, and run a bead at the center across all the leaves to pin them together at the ends.
Here's a gallery photo.
The top bundle is missing leaves, the bottom bundle has the weld.
_________________
Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
| If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
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joe56vw
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Joined: June 24, 2004
Posts: 3202
Location: Olympia wa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| joe56vw wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| j.pickens wrote: |
| Since the detent for the grub screw only hits a few of the leaves at the side, what's to keep the outer leaves from working free as the beam is loaded/unloaded when driving down the road and hitting bumps? |
Good call, I am really curious too.
Anyone in this thread have a narrowed beam with some miles on it? |
are your trailing arms the capped style or the ones that are open on the ends?
if they are capped then you don't have to worry about it but if they aren't then I would weld the leaves just to be on the safe side |
Mine are uncapped and welded, I'm wondering about beams which are uncapped and unwelded. |
I've seen the little springs walk out before, I think the worst one I saw was sticking about 2" out but that is very unusual. More often than not the welds are cracked, usually they stay in place. |
I think most lowered bus owner are doing stuff to their buses so often that they would notice the leaves coming out before it was a issue
plus I have had them come out on a stock bus I had once and they hit the rim when you turn
it makes a loud noise and I don't think anyone would keep driving until they figure out where it was coming from first
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SolarPoweredPickles
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Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
No, you even up the ends of the bundle, and run a bead at the center across all the leaves to pin them together at the ends.
Here's a gallery photo.
The top bundle is missing leaves, the bottom bundle has the weld.
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Awesome photo! Makes perfect sense now, thanks!
So, if I may backtrack a tad... at this point can I just clean out my torsion arms, re-loob em' up and slide them in, or is there a bearing race or something else that goes in there? I appreciate all the replies, great info. |
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SolarPoweredPickles
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Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Back to my initial mystery.
#10 Needle Bearing
#13 Needle bearing inner race
#10 looks like the one WW already pressed inside the beam.
#13 I am not sure what that is, already on the torsion arms? Or something I need to order?
I know I need the torsion arm rubber seals, aside from that I am unsure?
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/front_axle/frontend_bus/front_bus_to67.cfm |
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joe56vw
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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from the pics in your first post it looks like #13 is already on your trailing arms
not many people take those off as they are a real pita to get off after they been on awhile
if you don't already have #14 you will need to get them also
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SolarPoweredPickles
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Cool, I had a feeling but want to make sure.
Yeah #14 is definitely on the list. Thanks!
Lastly, I promise... what kind of grease and how much gets packed into the beam and arms? I did some hunting online but didn't get a definitive resolution. |
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BarryL
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:18 am Post subject: |
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There is a lot of talk about part #14 in a thread somewhere. Most replacements are junk. It's best to get the best you can now as it's impossible to retrofit them. Even good used ones are better that the aftermarket ones UNLESS someone has been able to get long lasting good ones. Please post if anyone has. In that "trailing arm seal thread" someone used o-rings that lasted.
I use high pressure chassis lube, squirt till it comes out everywhere, then use tons of blue gloves to wipe it all off. Swivel the spindles back and forth as you inject. Make sure there's no weight on the front end. |
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SolarPoweredPickles
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| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| BarryL wrote: |
There is a lot of talk about part #14 in a thread somewhere. Most replacements are junk. It's best to get the best you can now as it's impossible to retrofit them. Even good used ones are better that the aftermarket ones UNLESS someone has been able to get long lasting good ones. Please post if anyone has. In that "trailing arm seal thread" someone used o-rings that lasted.
I use high pressure chassis lube, squirt till it comes out everywhere, then use tons of blue gloves to wipe it all off. Swivel the spindles back and forth as you inject. Make sure there's no weight on the front end. |
Nice, isn't #14 just a rubber or polyurethane piece?
I have my originals still, I think they may be in good shape I'll need to look. I just figured on replacing them. Good to know the aftermarket ones aren't too hot? |
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