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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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 Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: child seats in your vanagon |
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so, with our new arrival coming in may, it's time for me to think about fitting extra restraints for child seats in lucy.
we just had a class this evening, at the end telling us about car seats, from 2002 cars had a LATCH system built in, so i figured it's try to copy that, has anyone out there done that already, i figure the bottom 2 points would be easy enough, the top one a bit more difficult.
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lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni' |
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syncrodoka
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Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12438
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I did the quicklink trick shown the the top link and added a fancy tie down between the mattress pads. That one is overkill. It's super solid w/o it. Honestly, the seat is more secure than my 2007 Toyota.
That gets you about 5 years untill you need to figure out headrests and shoulder straps |
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tam_shops
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Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 1531
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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No need to add Latch, you have regular locking seat belts all ready to go in Lucy, free. If they are not working, replace them. BUT, if you replace them w/ the Gowesty lap/shoulder belt (3pt style), know it won't lock and you will need to then use a Locking clip.
The regular gowesty lap belts lock, as do the original.
Latch *used* to be the preferred way to go, but in the last year, the Americans are in the process of phasing it out and no longer approve it for higher weight seats and/or children. There are a lot of complicated rules around it requiring you weigh your child and car seat, making most techs go back to the good old original seat belts...Canadian seats never allowed harness weight for the higher weight seats anyway, but there are similar rules maxing out Latch use after 40lbs.
Even if they were better/easier, Latch you add to a vehicle yourself would be questionably safe and not tested, thus not safe and taking a risk of your child's life for no reason or benefit.
Down the line you will need to add a Top Tether Anchor, when babe is 2years old+, when you have to forward face him/her. The reason and benefit to that would be to decrease head excursion in an impact. Also not tested, but commonly done over the last 20 years and yet to have a documented failure, that I've seen, heard or read.
Safe Travels and pictures of the beautiful babe soon please!
Registered Canadian CRST (Child Restraint Safety Technician)
tam
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1987 Vanagon Westfalia GL Automatic
Making it special:
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chazthetrumpeter
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Joined: January 14, 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Laconia NH
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:50 am Post subject: |
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I have a car seat in my van just using the seat belt. The LATCH system is not easy to use and much harder to get a seat installed tightly and well in any vehicle. I don't use the LATCH system at all in any vehicle, I always use the seat belts to hold the car seat in!
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bjrogers86auto
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Joined: March 26, 2009
Posts: 1377
Location: Halifax, N.S.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:40 am Post subject: seats |
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Everything Tam said! 
Brian
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2020 T@B 320 Teardrop(Has been van guy)
21 Ford Ranger XLT
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A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin and Hobbes. |
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Royb
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Joined: May 24, 2008
Posts: 228
Location: Sierra Foothills
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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What Chaz said- the van's lap belts are so much easier to secure a kiddie seat snugly than LATCH. Might want to get something to protect the upholstery from your kids though! It's why we bought a Pilot with leather!
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WestiCoast
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Joined: June 25, 2012
Posts: 194
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| I use a child seat tool called a Mighty-Tite. The only complaints I have ever heard about them are that some parents are overzelous and install them too tight. I have the latch system in my wifes car. We still use the mighty tight because it is much easier. They are about $15 on Amazon. PM me your mailing address and I will send you one. |
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greenraVR6
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Joined: January 19, 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| chazthetrumpeter wrote: |
| I have a car seat in my van just using the seat belt. The LATCH system is not easy to use and much harder to get a seat installed tightly and well in any vehicle. I don't use the LATCH system at all in any vehicle, I always use the seat belts to hold the car seat in! |
that's weird, I used the latch system in out 2011 suburban and it was so quick and easy compared to the seatbelt system. And SOOO much more solid. The car seat feels as securely attached as the actual back seats. Not sure if the brand makes a difference but we have a Britax and using latch it was pretty much just as easy as buckling a normal seatbelt.
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atomatom
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Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1911
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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i suspect it is illegal, but my girls absolutely loved having their car seats rear facing, sitting behind the rear bench/bed seat, making faces at the drivers behind us.
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tam_shops
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Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 1531
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Diono no longer makes the Mighty-Tite. I do not know any CRSTs or CPSTs that like and/or use the Mighty-Tite. We're happy to teach you how to get your seat that tight with out spending $20 on old stocked merchandise! Just PM me your email and specific area, I'll find you someone and email her information.
Other's opinions on it:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=238562
| WestiCoast wrote: |
| I use a child seat tool called a Mighty-Tite. The only complaints I have ever heard about them are that some parents are overzelous and install them too tight. I have the latch system in my wifes car. We still use the mighty tight because it is much easier. They are about $15 on Amazon. PM me your mailing address and I will send you one. |
In Canada, Tether Anchors (strap that goes from top of seat to a metal anchor on the ground/top of vehicle) are required by law, so, unless you installed Tether Anchors, indeed that would be a fine-able offence here. If it's only a booster seat (using 3 pt belt), it falls under a "improper use" category that most officers probably don't even know anything about. Neither the car seat nor the booster would be tested that way, so it may or may not be safe.
| atomatom wrote: |
| i suspect it is illegal, but my girls absolutely loved having their car seats rear facing, sitting behind the rear bench/bed seat, making faces at the drivers behind us. |
Generally speaking, rear facing (facing the back of the vehicle) is safer as most crashes happen when we hit something in front of us, so our body continues to fly forward. If we are facing the back of the vehicle, our body flies into the back of the seat (like in a rear facing jump seat), in a supported manner, thus, we are less injured. The exception to that rule would be if you are driving in reverse and hit something, but how fast can one go while driving in reverse?
tam
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1987 Vanagon Westfalia GL Automatic
Making it special:
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ThankYouJerry
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Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Other considerations (with or without kids!):
1. Big brake kit (to have a better chance of avoiding an accident all together).
2. Third brake light. Better chance of not getting rear ended.
3. Making sure all loose gear (bags, propane tanks, cooking, etc) is securely stored. This is particularly important when it comes to heavy gear, both loose as well as gear in cabinets (doors pop open easily) and especially behind the rear seats. I opted for a Thule box on top of the van for a lot of that stuff. Don't need projectiles during an accident.
Congrats! Happy safe motoring.
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ThankYouJerry
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Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| tam_shops wrote: |
Generally speaking, rear facing (facing the back of the vehicle) is safer as most crashes happen when we hit something in front of us, so our body continues to fly forward. If we are facing the back of the vehicle, our body flies into the back of the seat (like in a rear facing jump seat), in a supported manner, thus, we are less injured. The exception to that rule would be if you are driving in reverse and hit something, but how fast can one go while driving in reverse?
tam |
Or if you get rear-ended.
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Stevie Ray Van
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Joined: August 16, 2012
Posts: 94
Location: Olympia, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Our young'n is three and a half. The stock rear seat lap belt is what we tie her seat down with.
Toit like a toiger baby!  It doesn't move at all.
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tam_shops
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 1531
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Some seats (Britax) fit well in most vehicles with latch or with seat belt, some seats (Diono) have problem fitting in many vehicles. But, if you know what you are doing, most seats will fit well seat belt and latch in most vehicles. The Britax seats are well suited to the Vanagon b/c they have "Lock Offs", which lock the seat belt in place. Except in Canada where they have to have a top tether even rear facing, which would never work easily in a Vanagon.
| greenraVR6 wrote: |
| chazthetrumpeter wrote: |
| I have a car seat in my van just using the seat belt. The LATCH system is not easy to use and much harder to get a seat installed tightly and well in any vehicle. I don't use the LATCH system at all in any vehicle, I always use the seat belts to hold the car seat in! |
that's weird, I used the latch system in out 2011 suburban and it was so quick and easy compared to the seatbelt system. And SOOO much more solid. The car seat feels as securely attached as the actual back seats. Not sure if the brand makes a difference but we have a Britax and using latch it was pretty much just as easy as buckling a normal seatbelt. |
Nope, rear facing is still safer for a rear ender crash b/c the initial impact of the body throws your body forward (when rear facing that means into the car seat or jump seat), which absorbs a significant amount of energy. Then, your body flies unsupported into the rear of the vehicle unsupported, before falling back a second time (and generally last) into your seat.
Also, generally speaking a rear end crash has only one vehicle moving at city speeds, which is a lesser crash than say a front end crash or worse a head on crash and of course the two forward moving motions cancel each other out to create a lesser relative speed, for the crash.
| ThankYouJerry wrote: |
| tam_shops wrote: |
Generally speaking, rear facing (facing the back of the vehicle) is safer as most crashes happen when we hit something in front of us, so our body continues to fly forward. If we are facing the back of the vehicle, our body flies into the back of the seat (like in a rear facing jump seat), in a supported manner, thus, we are less injured. The exception to that rule would be if you are driving in reverse and hit something, but how fast can one go while driving in reverse?
tam |
Or if you get rear-ended. |
In contrast, when you are backing up your body is moving backwards, so when you hit something your body keeps moving backwards and the initial impact leaves your body unsupported (by car seat or jump seat). Then, you fly back again into the rear faced car/jump seat before resting by flying again forward...
This is a good one explaining the impacts of forward vs rear facing riders. The impacts would be the same for a jump seat, which is the safest place in the Vanagon.
Link
Forgot supporting link:
http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/
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malibu
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Joined: March 03, 2011
Posts: 116
Location: Horse Heaven, WA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I took the third point brackets off a mk3 jetta rear window deck and bolted them under the seat belt bolts on the van. Then I used the the base latch points to hook to those and the seatbelt since it was from the 80s I didn't know how strong it would be.
I was told double protection is not recommended because the belts can work against each other.
Now we have her in a bigger britax carseat and I just use the seatbelt because it has its own locking pieces that pinch the seatbelt. Also just use the seat belt for the new baby.
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ak_runner
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Joined: August 16, 2007
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| atomatom wrote: |
| i suspect it is illegal, but my girls absolutely loved having their car seats rear facing, sitting behind the rear bench/bed seat, making faces at the drivers behind us. |
Not legal anywhere I know and certainly not safe.
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ak_runner
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Joined: August 16, 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: child seats in your vanagon |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
so, with our new arrival coming in may, it's time for me to think about fitting extra restraints for child seats in lucy.
we just had a class this evening, at the end telling us about car seats, from 2002 cars had a LATCH system built in, so i figured it's try to copy that, has anyone out there done that already, i figure the bottom 2 points would be easy enough, the top one a bit more difficult. |
It is good that you are thinking about this. The most common mistake with child safety seats is improper installation. To get one tight enough that it does not move more than the NHTSA allowable amount I usually have to place my knees in the seat and press my back against the headliner or the belt will not hold the seat tight and I am 6'2" and a little over 200lbs. This is really fun with a rear facing infant seat as I do not fit in them very well.  I do to know what year your van is but once your child is big and old enough for a booster seat you will need shoulder belts as most boosters on the market are not rated for enough weight to allow the use of their straps for restraint.
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rubbachicken
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Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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i'm thinking about using a jump seat, i'll be needing one anyway, as my inlaws are coming, and we won't all fit without one.
will i be safer using the jump seat with a 3 point belt, or the rear bench with a lap belt, for him while he needs to be rear facing.
i have a while yet, he's not due until mid may.
tam, thank you for the information, there's a lot to read though
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lucy's BIG adventure
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tam_shops
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Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 1531
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Totally agree!
Only thing I do differently is remove the baby bucket from the base (after I'm happy with the recline) and then lean on the base. 1:36 of video.
Link
I have the advantage and disadvantage of being small, 5ft, I fit in most of the seats, but it makes it harder for me to get them as tight as I like them.
| ak_runner wrote: |
| rubbachicken wrote: |
so, with our new arrival coming in may, it's time for me to think about fitting extra restraints for child seats in lucy.
we just had a class this evening, at the end telling us about car seats, from 2002 cars had a LATCH system built in, so i figured it's try to copy that, has anyone out there done that already, i figure the bottom 2 points would be easy enough, the top one a bit more difficult. |
It is good that you are thinking about this. The most common mistake with child safety seats is improper installation. To get one tight enough that it does not move more than the NHTSA allowable amount I usually have to place my knees in the seat and press my back against the headliner or the belt will not hold the seat tight and I am 6'2" and a little over 200lbs. This is really fun with a rear facing infant seat as I do not fit in them very well. I do to know what year your van is but once your child is big and old enough for a booster seat you will need shoulder belts as most boosters on the market are not rated for enough weight to allow the use of their straps for restraint. |
No, you can not put baby in the bucket, in a jump seat. You can not put a rear facing car seat in a jump seat, it has not been tested and is not safe. It also makes baby go forward, which is dangerous on an entire new level. Any other adult, older child 12yo+ can sit in the jump seat, safest place in the Vanagon! 
You should not put a forward facing seat in that jump seat either. A booster seat is not allowed either, but causes me to twitch less than the other two ideas ie if you have 3 kids (one day or their friends). I wouldn't put my own child there, but if someone else wanted their child there I wouldn't have a stroke, but I'm not happy about the idea and not suggesting it. 
For a 5pt car seat (or baby bucket), there is no safety difference between a lap belt and lap shoulder belt (3pt). BUT, if you want to upgrade safety, new seat belts isn't a bad idea. However, the 3pt gowesty ones do not lock, so not great for car seats, but can be done.
Safest place for baby is on the back bench, using a lap belt (or lap/shoulder belt w/ locking clip if it's gowesty one) rear facing. Babe will remain there until he outgrows his bucket. Then, babe will go into a convertible and remain rear facing until at LEAST 2 years old or when he outgrows the next seat you pick. Then, toddler (prefer preschooler) goes forward facing in a 5pt harness seat and you will need a top tether anchor. So, you have at LEAST 2 years, prefer 3-4 years before you have to add or do anything to safely transport your child. [Though, a new seat belt would be nice]. He will stay that way until min 4years old, preference to more like 6yo. THEN, finally you need a lap shoulder belt (go westy one is perfect for this), in a booster seat. Lots of steps along the way before you need to make changes.
| rubbachicken wrote: |
i'm thinking about using a jump seat, i'll be needing one anyway, as my inlaws are coming, and we won't all fit without one.
will i be safer using the jump seat with a 3 point belt, or the rear bench with a lap belt, for him while he needs to be rear facing.
i have a while yet, he's not due until mid may.
tam, thank you for the information, there's a lot to read though |
And, you're welcome! It is nice to contribute to the group for a change instead of asking my usual dumb questions, followed by more dumb questions b/c me learning always makes more questions! LOL
tam
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Making it special:
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