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eche_bus: 1976 Westfalia Deluxe Camper
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Bala
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That new panel looks great! Love the easy fixes too!
I'll be doing some rear latch refurb this weekend. My key fits great, just won't turn. Confused
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Bala.

In my opinion, that rear latch pushbutton/lock is a lot more serviceable than some might think. The lock cylinder is pretty much the same as the other doors, and comes right out (at least mine did) once the pushbutton arm is removed (held on by a single screw). It'll likely be pretty obvious what's wrong once you begin looking closer at it. Best of luck with the fix! Smile
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear Seat Wall Overhaul - cleanout, insulate, new panel

Another small job as we work our way around the inside walls to prepare for cabinet installation. Seems odd to talk about "overhauling a wall", but the tired woodgrain panel just to the side of the rear seat covered one of the last interior spaces not yet explored. Who knew what lurked inside Question
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Once the arm rest and seat belt was out of the way, the retaining screws were removed and the panel pulled off by tilting it out from the bottom and dropping it out of the top channel. You can also see here where a PO hogged-out the screw access hole in the upper left corner.
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I got my first look at the nearly 40 year old insulation.
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The insulation wasn't glued in place so came right out.
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Ah ... a "smoking gun" of rodent visitation ... an ACORN inside of a little hollowed-out spot! Shocked This is one more reason why we're systematically working our way through the interior.
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With the old insulation out, the entire space was vacuumed and washed down thoroughly to get rid of any traces of "animal life". I found no rust! Very Happy
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New insulation was cut and installed into the clean space.
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A vapor barrier was glued over everything using good 'ol (at least I hope so) Krylon Easy-Tack repositionable spray adhesive.
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So on to the business of replacing the old panel. Repro panel details here ---> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7274474#7274474
I began by laying the old panel on top of the new one to see how well they lined up. I found the new one slightly shorter, which was no problem as the bottom isn't visible once installed. However, the lower part of the arc cutout didn't match well, enough so that it fit real tight at the bottom. I marked the contour of the old panel on the new one with plans to remove the excess later. I marked and center-punched the locations of all the old screw holes onto the new panel, using masking tape to minimize chipping during drilling. The OG panels are held on with countersunk oval head screws, so after drilling, I lightly countersunk the holes to minimize stress on the new panel's laminate during installation. The new panel was easy to punch and drill without any laminate damage.
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On to fixing the mismatched contour. My Dremel mini-router setup and a small file got rid of the excess pretty quick!
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So here you have it, insulated, sealed up and good-or-better-than-new. Even polished up the dull galvanized steel strip. What an improvement! Cool And, if you go back to the first photo, you can see the new panel lines up with the bus pretty much the same as the original one did.
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cgott1089
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject: table and leaf dimensions Reply with quote

Hi eche bus - Great looking work here! I just got a '79 Westy, and am thinking of building my own table for it. Do you have the dimensions for the table and hinged leaf? That would be so helpful for starting my project!

Best regards,
C
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: table and leaf dimensions Reply with quote

cgott1089 wrote:
Hi eche bus - Great looking work here! I just got a '79 Westy, and am thinking of building my own table for it. Do you have the dimensions for the table and hinged leaf? That would be so helpful for starting my project!

Best regards,
C


C - Thank you, and good luck with your '79 Westy. If you look here (found using search for "table dimensions") Surprised http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...dimensions you'll see a good photo with those dimensions.
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part I Reply with quote

Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part I - inspect, clean, and remote control lock

Had we finally arrived at the last interior space left to clean out and overhaul? Although the sliding door worked "pretty well", it did shut hard, the key didn't return to center, the retainer latch didn't always engage, and with chipped paint, weathered plating, and a blotchy faded panel, it wasn't real pretty either.
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Opening things up, it didn't look too bad. Surprised
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I wanted to clean the old grease and goo out of the remote control lock, so removed the c-clip and unbolted it from the door. This made it easy to remove all the insulation and thoroughly wash down the inside of the door.
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Hey, looks like the rodent(s) didn't make it this far. No acorns or nests here or inside the door! Very Happy
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On to overhauling the remote control lock. There isn't much in the way you can take apart at all aside from the rubber latch guides, plastic handle and lock knob, and keylock.
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With those out of the way, the remaining assembly was tossed into a shallow pan and sprayed with carb cleaner and soaked in lacquer thinner. You can see the overspray from a PO's "professional" paint job. Couldn't even mask off the handle hole. Rolling Eyes
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Can't forget that lock problem though. It turned out the arm was loose on the shaft, allowing one end of the return spring to creep up into the space and off. I cleaned the whole assembly, then relubed it, repositioned the spring, and secured the arm.
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It seems like VW used a different way of retaining these lock arms in each application, and unlike other doors, this one used a round spring clip. It looked OK, but that clip didn't seem to want to keep the arm tight in place. The first time, I pressed it flat, pressed/hammered it firmly in place and tried it. It worked twice, but on the third try came loose. I finally had to groove the center shaft in order to get the clip to stay put. Sorry no photos - got busy and hands full! Embarassed

With the remote control lock clean inside and out, the only way to relube the inside was to pour heavy motor oil through it, rotating and letting the excess drain out from different angles. Once the excess was removed, I brushed lithium grease on the exterior sliding mechanisms. Not going to pass as new, but sure did look and work better and smoother than it did. Shows what a little cleaning and rubout with 000 steel wool and WD40 can do, just no miracles. Wink
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part II Reply with quote

Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part II - center lock and sliding door retainer

Center Lock
I was a little leery of removing the center lock. That weird coil spring wasn't shown in the Bentley (too much work to include late bay details for some odd reason). However, Colin's excellent IAC website explained well enough how to remove it so I struck forward. I found that simply grabbing the rod (with vice grips) that attaches one end of the spring to the door and pulling to compress the spring did the trick. With the rod out of the way, it's three obvious screws and its out. Note the foam anti-rattle pad inside the spring. That's a good thing to have. Save or replace it.
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So how did it look? Um ... greasy. Another candidate for the ol' clean n' lube.
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Gave it the same carb cleaner sprayout followed by brushing/soaking in lacquer thinner. Turned out to be in very good condition!
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After re-greasing, I wanted to protect the condition of the plating as this thing is large, visible, and likely NLA. I use a waxy preservative called Rust Prevention Magic. It's applied by heating the part and the product and then brushing the liquid over the part. Once cooled, it can be buffed out and remain nearly invisible while preventing corrosion even in damp environments! I forgot to mention using it on the remote control latch, too.
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Sliding Door Retainer
The sliding door retainer showed every mile and year of its life with this Westy. Scratched and chipped, it's day of beauty had arrived. The sticky mechanism, a simple arm pivoting on a spring-loaded post, just needed cleaning.

Some have told me VW used Grey-Black everywhere the color "black" was used. I'm showing you the exception right here. To be fair, I think Westfalia painted these, not VW as I understand these parts are left zinc plated and sometimes covered by a trim piece on the other bus models. On late Westys, these are painted black and I don't mean Grey-Black, but black and Gloss Black at that. I took it outside in full sun, tilted it back and forth and will swear there is no trace of any greyness. So there. #Bad Talk
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That nonsense out of the way, the part was stripped, cleaned, painted back the way it was. New lube (hey, it kinda gets all over) and it was ready to go!
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All the parts are ready for re-assembly and adjustment!
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats going to look nICe Cool
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OK, this thread is over. You win.

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1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1974 Westfalia Hardtop Campmobile
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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Silverboot
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the photos and detail, getting ready to tackle this job as well, and i now realize that i am apparently missing a few pieces. Time to hit the classifieds.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little late. But next time look into a greaseless door lubricant. They don't collect dust and will not stain the wives dress.
http://www.fourbyfourclub.com/W463Tools/463SiliconePaste.htm
http://www.agscompany.com/lubricants/homehardware/178
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0682165?isPunchout=false
Looking great.
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part III Reply with quote

Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Part III - insulation, reassembly, adjustment, and done!

Insulation and Assembly
Before putting the refreshed mechanisms back in the door, we put in the new insulation. VW just slipped the two top panels behind the cables and such to hold them in, but I used some spray glue.

One thing you might notice is the oversized hole around the circular spring. This things shifts around as the door is opened and closed, so it kind of just makes its own "room to move".

Following the Bentley to assemble things works pretty well, except for the whole coiled spring part, where you need to use a vice grips to pull the spring-to-door rod into its hole in the door. So far so good. Pray
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Bentley's Sin of Omission
Have your attention? I hope so.

I'd now reached the point where the Remote Lock's adjustment procedure could be performed, starting with sticking an appropriate sized tool into a small opening in the Center Lock. Seemed easy enough, according to what I read in the Big Green Book.

Trouble is, the procedure documented there is nothing like what you need to actually do to make this adjustment on a late bay. Although it has a separate late bay section for this, it's not correct for at least 1976 and beyond. As (barely) described, it simply won't work.

Think otherwise? Go ahead, try sticking a small tool in the hole following those instructions. Goes right in the outer hole, but doesn't actually engage anything inside, so what's the point!?! Try it door open, try it closed. How ya doin'? Frustrated yet?

Here's how to actually do it (and how I figured it out):
To remove tension from the Center Lock mechanism, I disengaged the Remote Control Lock adjuster, and the coil spring (never shown or referred to in the Bentley anyway). Now I tried closing the Center Lock's latch to see if that made a difference. It felt different now, like I could actually move the arm enough to make a difference. Still, couldn't actually see or feel anything inside move into position!

It was only once I pulled up on the arm, levering it to compress the rubber stop inside, that the small hole in the lever inside could be moved into position, allowing the alignment tool to engage and hold it there.

Simply - the latch needs to be closed (like when the door is shut) and the arm levered upward fairly hard in order for you to insert an alignment tool into the inside hole. This, or a simpler version of it really needs to be posted somewhere! Here is what it looks like in practice.
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In five minutes, the door was adjusted and the coil spring returned to normal operation. Shocked

Moisture Barrier
Could finally move forward to installing the moisture barrier. Used same Krylon repositionable adhesive. Worked well so far on front/sliding door, rear hatch.
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Trim Panel
After carefully carving out holes in the moisture barrier, and snapping in 16 repro retaining pushpins, the brand new woodgrain panel was in place. I used a philips screwdriver about the same diameter as the holes in the door as an alignment guide. The holes in the new panel lined up pretty well, not enough misalignment to prevent pushpin installation.
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Don't count 16 black dots? Hmmm ... that might be because as soon as the door was slammed shut, 6 of them popped out and went flying into my lap! Evil or Very Mad I pushed them back in. Each seem to install with a snap. Slamming the door again ... right back in my lap. Crying or Very sad

The solution? I polished up my originals and replaced every repro one with OG. My originals made a distintively "snappier" snap sound. My originals ALL stayed in through repeated door slammings. Cool

The rear hatch panel pins had the same problem. At first, I'd thought it might be something unique to that panel. I replaced all but 3 repros with polished up OGs. The 3 repros were put in "low stress" locations. I can slam my hatch now. None pop out.

It sure'd be nice to buy a repro part that worked right now and then.

Finis'
The final part of reassembly was to put the repainted Sliding Door Retainer in place, carefully adjusting it to align with the guide pin and latch arm at the rear edge of the door frame. Smooth and reliable now.

From there I cleaned and realigned the Remote Control Lock striker, and gave the strikers and latches a rub with a lithium-wax stick. Things work like they should now!

The only thing remaining was to polish the galvanized strip just above the woodgrain panel with a little 000 steel wool and WD-40, sit back and snap a photo of the finished result! Very Happy
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applause Applause
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1974 Westfalia Hardtop Campmobile
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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Bala
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!
Have you refurbished your exterior sliding door mechanisms?
If not, I look forward to seeing that!
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
Thats going to look nICe Cool
Applause Applause

Thank you! Yes, it'll really be something to one day see all the interior back in place, looking and working so much newer! So incredibly much work though.

Silverboot wrote:
thanks for the photos and detail, getting ready to tackle this job as well, and i now realize that i am apparently missing a few pieces. Time to hit the classifieds.

I can't help you with the parts, but if there are any questions, let me know.

Tcash wrote:
A little late. But next time look into a greaseless door lubricant. They don't collect dust and will not stain the wives dress.
Looking great.

Appreciate the tip - I could use a little more lube options and will look into that. Where exactly would you use that type of lubricant?

Bala wrote:
Nice!
Have you refurbished your exterior sliding door mechanisms?
If not, I look forward to seeing that!

Not yet, as I'm staying focused on the interior with the near-term goal of getting the floor, carpet, and cabinets back in. The door slides OK, but it could be better and the hinge link assembly pop-out is a little sluggish, not to mention a spray-monkey painted it green. So, it'll be a while but its likely to happen this year.
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Thrasher22
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good tip on the door latch, I got mad and gave up on that part of the adjustment...

For the greaseless lube, I just spray it liberally on anywhere I'd normally use grease. Its only been a couple months, but is still holding up quite well and made a HUGE difference in my locks. I use Jig-a-loo, which you can get at Home Depot. WARNING: Use carefully, it will soften any paint it touches Evil or Very Mad

Why the vapor barriers on the new panels though? I didn't think they would be necessary anywhere except the front doors, or are you concerned about heavy condensation?
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where exactly would you use that type of lubricant?
Hinges latches and catches.
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NLAVWParts
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is great to see our products being used in such a high quality restoration!

Your attention to detail is excellent! It's great hearing your feedback on our panels, and rest assured we are taking them on board (no pun intended) Cool
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A better solution to crappy push in aftermarket tabs and easier to source than oem??

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=963320

Same?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-X-Nylon-Rivet-Fastener-...mp;vxp=mtr


Are these like the after market ones you got?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-x-Honda-Acura-Retaining...mp;vxp=mtr
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1974 Westfalia Hardtop Campmobile
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sliding Door Interior Overhaul Addendum - keeping water out
It doesn't do much good to clean out all the goo and put nice, dry insulation in if its just going to get messed up again, right?

Here's a small job no one has an excuse to put off. Only a single screw, a few bucks for parts, and 5 minutes of time seals your sliding door handle from the outside and can even help it wobble less.

Replace the outside door handle seals. Both parts available from BusDepot and they actually fit right! Dancing
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Plug the large black plastic one into the door, slip the Neoprene? foam one over the handle shaft, plug it back into the door and from inside, re-install the retaining screw with a little blue Locktite on the threads.
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Rain stays out. Inside of door dry. Is good. Smile
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eche_bus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: repro panel retainers Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
A better solution to crappy push in aftermarket tabs and easier to source than oem??

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=963320

Same?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-X-Nylon-Rivet-Fastener-...mp;vxp=mtr


Are these like the after market ones you got?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-x-Honda-Acura-Retaining...mp;vxp=mtr


I can see where the first ones might retain well, as long as you don't mind the visible difference from OG.

The repro ones I used weren't the ones you linked. I got them from NLA VW at the same time I bought my panels. They're a real honest effort, something I won't say for the majority of the repro VW stuff I've tried. Here's a photo showing one next to an OG one:
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If you measure them, you'll find them virtually identical. The differences that I think come in to play here are the slight difference in angle where the sides neck down, but perhaps more so it is in the plastic itself. The OG plastic is simply stiffer.

When I've inserted and removed the repros, they feel smooth and easy to do so, even though they do "snap" when inserted. The OGs take noticeably more force to insert and to remove and make more of a "click" or higher-pitched snap sound.

It's likely that with OG panels, which are slightly thinner and more flexible and even more so with old compressed insulation, these repros would have enough retention force to stay put. But, with new "everything", I'll stand firm on the opinion they just don't do the job, unless you really enjoy chasing them each time you use the rear hatch or sliding door.

I'll add this, too. If you're just missing a few OG ones, it will likely work well to polish up what you have (easily made like new with a buffer and plastic polish) and use a few of these repros. The key is to just not use them in the higher stress places like the middle of the sliding door or where you feel the hatch panel flex when you install it.

So these repros have a use, just not to replace all or most of the OG ones.
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