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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13685
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
^^^^
what he said. plain white box. no idea who made them.
I got so pissed at sender #6 not working, I took it apart to find the wire broken, so I soldered it back to it's tab.
the rest of them either the slide would jam in the tube, or the wire was all wadded up inside, even with the transport pin in place.
of all the crappy parts I have purchased, this by far deserves the golden turd award |
Interesting. I just looked at CIP-1's site. It calls this sender an OE quality replacement with 4 stars. They way it's listed, it does not indicate who makes it and the picture of the top shows no identification.
Wolfsburg West wants $112 for theirs and it also is not identified as to who makes it. Looks like the one CIP-1 sells.
http://www.eisparts.com/211919051VDO.html?gclid=CLaC4Yry3MECFcVhfgodnYUA6w
EIS lists this VDO sender for $129.00 and Bus Depot lists this same one for $100
http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/fuel-...-211919051
Airhead parts repro made by who knows?
So, has anyone have any experience with the over $100 dollars VDO fuel sender for 68-73 bus's? It looks like this would be the way to go vs. the $30 dollar cheaper crappy repops.
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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So as a follow up, I had the engine out due to having to pull the transmission out and send it in for an overhaul. I checked the fuel gauge by grounding the sender post and it went to full immediately. So, back to the sender that had worked before I originally pulled the tank to replace the original senders.
This sender is date stamped 8-70 which makes it the original. I pulled the tank back out. I had grounded it correctly. I removed the sender from the tank. The tube portion had vibrated off again. When I fished for the nut in the tank, I found the nut and the retainer/washer that is suppose to be bent over the nut so it won't back off.
I bench tested the resistance with a meter. It seemed to be working ok.
I then walked the sender over to the dash, grounded the sender body and plugged into the top of the sender that goes to the fuel gauge. Oddly, it worked though the range was off. It went from left of empty to 3/4 full moving the float up and down the shaft. I did this a couple of times wondering if there was adjustment on the gauge to get the range right. Then, all of the sudden, it stopped working all together. I cleaned the wires and the shaft that the float runs on. No change. It flat stopped working.
Both wires are intact and I see nothing obviously wrong with it. Does anyone see anything obvious that might suggest why it quit working?
Looks like I'm going to be buying a new sender. Now, the question is should I cut an access hole before reinstalling the tank...again.
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Skoolieman
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Joined: January 31, 2011
Posts: 573
Location: Chattanooga TN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW I have the same sender in my 69 and it wasnt working. I took it apart, cleaned it up and still nothing. I ended up adding a second ground by drilling through the top and soldering it to the metal coil. It has worked great ever since. I never could figure out why the factory ground wasn't sufficient. It did save me a ton of money though. So my suggestion would by to try and test it with the ground on the copper coil.
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13685
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Skoolieman wrote: |
| FWIW I have the same sender in my 69 and it wasnt working. I took it apart, cleaned it up and still nothing. I ended up adding a second ground by drilling through the top and soldering it to the metal coil. It has worked great ever since. I never could figure out why the factory ground wasn't sufficient. It did save me a ton of money though. So my suggestion would by to try and test it with the ground on the copper coil. |
Thank you sir! I will try that. Did you have a thread on doing that repair? Bus Daddy said someone had success drilling another hole thru it and grounding it.
When you said you soldered it to the metal coil, are you referring to the post where one of the thin wires is soldered or to the copper plate in the middle?
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52927
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Correct, the "copper coil" is pinched against the sender body by that riveted terminal and black plastic collar, over the years corrosion has built up under it and messed up the contact, soldering a ground to it and running it up through the cap (sealed of course) to a top side screw is the best fix. Careful soldering on the copper thing, it's a spring that maintains tension on the hair wire, don't cook the temper out of it. Another option is a really tiny screw or pop rivet from below right beside the plastic collar to ground the copper part to the cap body (I'd do it on the inner U shaped part myself).
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Another option is a really tiny screw or pop rivet from below right beside the plastic collar to ground the copper part to the cap body (I'd do it on the inner U shaped part myself). |
That's a very good idea BD. I'll take it back apart tomorrow, use an alligator clip on the copper and see if it comes back to life.
Last question, when you check the resistance of these, what do you have your multimeter set at?
Thanks again.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I can't recall off hand, I usually just use a fuel gauge like you are doing, connect the meter right at the tops of the hair wires and see what you get with different ranges, then compare those readings to the terminals on top.
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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So, I went back in the garage and grabbed the meter. I put it on the copper coil on the bottom and it came back to life. Clearly BD and Skoolieman are on point.
What I found is for it to work again, it likes the ground right there on the copper part. If I move it to the other side, it doesn't work as well. I also tried pushing down on the copper into the top and it still wouldn't ground. I'm sure the backside of the copper is highly corroded thus, no ground when the two touch together.
So, I'm going to drill a small hole thru the top and carefully solder another ground wire where the arrow is pointing. If I can do it w/out damaging anything, I'll put it back together tomorrow and use JB weld to seal the wire and hole up.
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wcfvw69
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Oh well, while soldering on that copper ring, the thin wire snapped where it couldn't be soldered back on. Looking at that internals, it's probably not a bad thing to replace the 42 YO sender anyway. Lots of corrosion on it.
I looked around once again and figured out that there are three main senders being made today to fit this year bus.
1) Brazilian made that several vendors have listed including Wolfsburg West for $112?? The other vendors are in the $75 range for it.
2) A sender with no identifiable markings on it or where's it's made. It's the POS that CIP-1 says is a top quality part. Other vendors sell it too. Everyone else who's bought it says it's a POS. It appears to be the same one that Skill's bought 6 of to get one to work.
3) Bus Depot sells a German made, original VDO sendor for $99. EIS also sells this one for $129
4) Airhead Parts sells what they refer to as their reproduction sender for $79 dollars that looks like the others Brazilian made units. It looks identical to the one Wolfsburg West is selling for $112.
So.. I bought the VDO unit from Bus Depot. I'll report how it is when I get it in my hands.
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Jack_O_Trades
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Joined: August 14, 2014
Posts: 188
Location: Bay Area CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| When I rebuilt mine, to fix the ground, I shoved the tip of an xacto blade between the cap and the copper contact. I then snapped off the tip, leaving it behind. It was enough to create contact between the two corroded surfaces. I did this in multiple places for redundancy. |
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13685
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jack_O_Trades wrote: |
| When I rebuilt mine, to fix the ground, I shoved the tip of an xacto blade between the cap and the copper contact. I then snapped off the tip, leaving it behind. It was enough to create contact between the two corroded surfaces. I did this in multiple places for redundancy. |
That's a clever idea for sure. How long did it last?
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I got my order in from Bus Depot. I ordered it ground and they do take 2-3 days to ship when you order ground..
I got the new fuel sender. It is VDO brand made in Brazil. Bus Depot's site is a bit miss-leading as it says clearly on it VDO (Germany). I think we all know VDO is a German company but I think they should change it to VDO (made in Brazil).
It came nicely packaged in a solid tube.
Here's the top of it.
I hooked it up to my multimeter. It went from 5 ohms with the float at the bottom to 80 ohms with the float at the top. I was a bit worried that my gauge on the dash was off a considerable amount based on how the last gauge worked before it crapped out.
I hooked the plug to the out on the sender, then grounded it. It went just slightly to the left of empty with the float at the bottom of the sender.
I then rotated it so the float would move to the top of the sender or "full". It quickly climbed to just left of full. I can live with that!
Now, I need to reinstall it in the tank and put the tank back in the bus. I plan on putting a few gallons in the tank to check it again before reinstalling the tank back panel and engine. I hope this sender doesn't have a cheap float in it that sinks after a while.
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ROCKOROD71
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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1) Bus Depot does the mis-lead game with lots of their parts. I've come to the conclusion that you really need to call and ask their customer service people about all the little details you might care about when ordering a part. There was a thread a while back about "German" type 4 oil coolers that were made in China and needed modification to fit properly. If you email Ron about it I'm sure he'll look into it and change the website, they are pretty good about that.
2) Being that the sender is made in Brazil I would hope the float can stand the ethanol, their whole country runs on the stuff! I'm betting those were made for Brazilian busses, so I bet you're safe! Report back if there is a failure. Thanks for doing all the leg work on figuring out the different manufacturers, it is sure to help someone else down the road.
BTW Airhead "guaranteed for life" parts are made by or exclusively for Ventura Warehouse Group. Airhead Parts and KGPR (Ghia parts) are the retail arm of that company. I got a brand new hoover bit from them recently that fit very nicely,so....they are trying...
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
BTW Airhead "guaranteed for life" parts are made by or exclusively for Ventura Warehouse Group. Airhead Parts and KGPR (Ghia parts) are the retail arm of that company. I got a brand new hoover bit from them recently that fit very nicely,so....they are trying... |
I did look at their sender as well. It looks just like the one that Wolfsburg West sells and another vendor or two have it as well. I believe there's are also made in Brazil but the tops look different than the VDO. I don't know if it's decent or not. I didn't find any feedback on this Airhead part either. I then avoided CIP-1's due to lots of negative feedback on it. I just went for the VDO brand for an extra $20 bucks. It was beautifully packaged with a nice list of instructions as well. As I already mentioned, I also bought it because it said VDO "Germany" as well.
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1967250s
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Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Should have used copper or brass wire, not steel from the x-acto. Gasoline often has water, add steel, you know what happens. Probably just a re-crimping of the ground rivet would probably suffice, unless it has an inordinate amount of corrosion under the rivet, then a dab of solder and a connecting wire would be my recommendation. I would not try to use just a solder connection from the rivet to the copper rings as you would need lots of heat. Just go from of the edge of the rivet to the copper where there is solder with a thin wire.
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wcfvw69
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| 1967250s wrote: |
| Should have used copper or brass wire, not steel from the x-acto. Gasoline often has water, add steel, you know what happens. Probably just a re-crimping of the ground rivet would probably suffice, unless it has an inordinate amount of corrosion under the rivet, then a dab of solder and a connecting wire would be my recommendation. I would not try to use just a solder connection from the rivet to the copper rings as you would need lots of heat. Just go from of the edge of the rivet to the copper where there is solder with a thin wire. |
If I had to do this over again with my original sender, I would of dipped the top portion into a chemical to remove the corrosion and restore the contacts. I think this would have worked better than what I tried.
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40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
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**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52490
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ned wrote: |
| I bought a Karman ghia replacement senders. Its a bit shorter but it works and I have a larger reserve. I have them in 2 of my buses so far and they both work. But then I have never had a great expectation of fuel senders for any bus I have had over the years. None ever seem to be acurate. Pen and paper is a must. Good luck. |
What is the difference between a Ghia sender and a Beetle one?
What year Ghia? Are you talking about buying a factory sender or an aftermarket one?
Thanks |
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RunningRough
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Joined: July 31, 2013
Posts: 94
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:33 am Post subject: Fuel sender early Fix T2a |
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To link to this post copy and paste
| Code: |
| [url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7605744#7605744]Fuel sender early Fix T2a[/url] |
This post was helpful to me, so I thought I should add my results to it for the next person.
I have a non working gas gauge in my 1970 bus that I picked up this summer. I have been going through the bus this winter and next on the list was to clean the fuel tank and trouble shoot my gas gauge. Actually, next on the list was to reinstall my engine tins, but I realized that the thermostat and its linkage to the flaps was removed. I ordered those parts and while waiting for those to arrive.....it is on to the fuel tank. When I first pulled the tank I could see that the ground on top of the sender flange was pretty corroded.
I cleaned everything up and could not get the sender to bench test by grounding on the flange, but it would function if I grounded directly to the copper circular piece. I took Busdaddy's advice of drilling through the top and soldering to the copper piece.
It is nervous work handling this thing.....I think those resistance wires will break if you look at them wrong.
The float and ohm readings travel nice and smoothly all the way through.
The wire insulation is pretty snug through the drill hole, I still need to get a little JB Weld or something on it.
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37emeralds
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Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Just wanted to let everyone know that this is perhaps the best way to go! Restore/clean the original sender and solder an extra ground directly to the copper plate. I did this a few days ago and everything works! Be extremely careful with the resistor wires. Restoring the original unit not only saves you money, but you also have the peace of mind of knowing that your original sender shows the most correct position. |
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Volktales
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Posts: 546
Location: Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Just received fuel gauge sender from CIP. Their ad clearly shows a VDO sender and the implication that it is equal to original quality. What arrived was that generic white box China? crap. When questioned CIP states that the no name is all that is available now. I tried to disassemble the intermittent working original sender, but the tube portion is refusing to release itself from the top casting. Any ideas? I would much rather have an original part repaired then more garbage. Have been burned by CIP's misleading ads WAY too many times, now...
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