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Combinations
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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 Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: HELP brand new engine doesn't crank once installed! |
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Guys I just put back my new engine ( refurbished that was tested on a bench ) in my 1976 bay.
It seems the engine is stuck. The starter works great, very powerful, battery is fully charged, I hear the starter trying to move the motor but it won't budge.
I pulled the starter again tonight to turn the engine by the flywheel and it wouldn't move, I also tried turning the crank bolt with no success.
Should I try to push it down the driveway and pop it into first hoping that it will turn?
Do you think something could have been stuck inside?
Is there something that I could have missed once I put the engine back in the bay?
If you have some advice, let me know.
THanks
Aurel |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17788
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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loosen the engine mount bolts and start backing the engine out of the transmission. As you do this keep trying to rotate the crank with a wrench. At some point it should start turning.
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Combinations
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Good idea, but how will it make it turn once I tighten back the engine bolts?
It was turning freely before being installed. |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
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Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Something is jammed. Just try what I told you and see what happens
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Combinations
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ok will try that, Hope I won't discover a forgotten wrench inside!
Anyone had the same thing happening? |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17788
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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yep
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: HELP brand new engine doesn't crank once instaled! |
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| Combinations wrote: |
| I just put back my new engine ( refurbished that was tested on a bench ) in my 1976 bay. |
Type 1 or 4 engine?
Transaxle 002 or 091?
Did you buy a new starter?
X2 on backing off the mounting bolts.
Good Luck
Tcash |
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Combinations
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Type 4 engine
Brand new starter
Transaxle, I don't know The engine was the original one refurbished. |
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Tcash
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Combinations
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i will remove all spark plugs, I wonder if it could come from the a too thick clutch disk? |
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swavananda
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Your old fly wheel or refurbished one ?
This happened to me long time ago so i am a little fuzzy on details.......swapping engines on a late bay and it would stick when tightened, lots of head scratching and cursing....... turns out the bus had the transaxle swapped out some time in the past with a 75 ish -215mm ? so the swapped engine with the 228 flywheel dug in. something easy to check and eliminate |
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Combinations
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| swavananda wrote: |
Your old fly wheel or refurbished one ?
This happened to me long time ago so i am a little fuzzy on details.......swapping engines on a late bay and it would stick when tightened, lots of head scratching and cursing....... turns out the bus had the transaxle swapped out some time in the past with a 75 ish -215mm ? so the swapped engine with the 228 flywheel dug in. something easy to check and eliminate |
I don't know if the flywheel is original or not. Could the flywheel touch the bell housing on the teethe side or could it be to thick in length?
How do I know which flywheel goes with which transmission? |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Combinations wrote: |
| I wonder if it could come from the a too thick clutch disk? |
Trans in neutral would not matter.
Tcash |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52784
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| swavananda wrote: |
| This happened to me long time ago so i am a little fuzzy on details.......swapping engines on a late bay and it would stick when tightened, lots of head scratching and cursing....... turns out the bus had the transaxle swapped out some time in the past with a 75 ish -215mm ? so the swapped engine with the 228 flywheel dug in. something easy to check and eliminate |
I would suspect that this might be the problem. The 228mm clutch will not fit inside the early bellhousing unless some clearancing has been done to the bellhousing. A picture of the starter drive on his old starter would help determine which bellhousing he has. |
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Combinations
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Joined: March 19, 2010
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Location: Massachussets
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: |
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A lot of interesting info here thanks guys.
So if I understand it could be one of these element right:
1) The flywheel is too thick and touches the back of the bell housing
2) The flywheel's diameter is to big and touches the inner sides of the bell housing
( but it seems that the starters fits perfectly)
3) The clutch is to thick and make the pressure plate touches somewhere
How come that I can tighten the engine to the bell housing and that it fits perfectly, Are we talking about a few milimeters difference that make the flywheel touch?
In this case can swap the flywheel for a model that would fit the bell housing? |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Combinations wrote: |
A lot of interesting info here thanks guys.
So if I understand it could be one of these element right:
1) The flywheel is too thick and touches the back of the bell housing
2) The flywheel's diameter is to big and touches the inner sides of the bell housing
( but it seems that the starters fits perfectly)
The flywheels are the same. The clutch pressure plate and disc are what is bigger.
3) The clutch is to thick and make the pressure plate touches somewhere
The clutch not too thick. The pressure plate is too big around.
How come that I can tighten the engine to the bell housing and that it fits perfectly, Are we talking about a few milimeters difference that make the flywheel touch?
It will bolt up. Time to loosen the engine mounting bolts as suggested.
In this case can swap the flywheel for a model that would fit the bell housing?
Again not the flywheel. |
Loosen the mounting bolts and turn the engine. It may just be in bind.
Good luck
Tcash |
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deronmoped
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Joined: November 18, 2006
Posts: 386
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Take a breaker bar to the crankshaft pully bolt and give it wrench. See how much effort is needed to turn the engine.
Hydraulic lock, something binding in the engine or clutch or alternator/fan. |
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tristessa
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Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3993
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| Trans in neutral would not matter. |
You're assuming that it isn't in gear.
Not that I've ever made such a rookie mistake, oh no...  |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52784
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Combinations wrote: |
A lot of interesting info here thanks guys.
So if I understand it could be one of these element right:
1) The flywheel is too thick and touches the back of the bell housing
2) The flywheel's diameter is to big and touches the inner sides of the bell housing
( but it seems that the starters fits perfectly)
3) The clutch is to thick and make the pressure plate touches somewhere
How come that I can tighten the engine to the bell housing and that it fits perfectly, Are we talking about a few milimeters difference that make the flywheel touch?
In this case can swap the flywheel for a model that would fit the bell housing? |
Assuming its an interference issue, the problem isn't going to be the flywheel or the thickness of the clutch disc. The problem is the shape of the larger 228mm clutch cover. VW redesigned the bellhousing when they went to the large clutch to prevent interference so if you have an earlier bellhousing, the clutch cover and bellhousing will bind against each other.
You can either replace the flywheel and the entire clutch assembly or replace the bellhousing. As I mentioned above post a picture of the drive on your original starter. It is also possible to clearance the earlier bellhousing and get the setup to work. |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42999
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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I agree here that there is a high probabiltiy that the flywheel is hitting the trans. I would pull the engine back out before trying further to turn it before you break something. When things bind because of a misfit, applying force is always a bad idea.
You should see teeth marks on the inside of the bell housing if the issue is that. Check the end play on the engine again while it is out to be sure the binding hasn't damaged the thrust area.
Also - 228 mm bus flywheels are cast - they can break with excessive force.
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