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1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set
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epowell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I would carefully remove the injector. It takes a 27mm deep socket. I would use a breaker bar. Make sure to orient the handle so that it is parallel to the engine (pointing toward the front of the van) so that you are pushing the handle toward the head. Do a 1/4 turn out, 1/8th turn in, 1/4 turn out, etc, until it turns out by hand. Otherwise you risk cracking the head at the injector boss.


So these are "the instructions"... I will assume that a 27mm deep socket is the 'special socket' Mark was referring to. I can buy one of these.

I think I am getting it... but first off, what should be done about those flexible cloth fuel lines, do they just 'pull off'?

So with those cloth lines off, I put on the deep socket, the breaker-bar handle should be pointing STRAIGHT towards the front windshield, that way when I push on the breaker-bar I am pushing force INTO the HEAD (which is the strong part of the hole) rather than AWAY from the HEAD (which would put force against the weakest part of the hole and therefore might CRACK it > and Bingo>GAME-OVER!

You say "Make sure to orient the handle so that it is parallel to the engine..."
...you mean parallel with the cam and crank shafts!

Here is a pic I made in photoshop to show if I am understanding this correctly... the RED line is the wrench handle wrenching on injector #1, and the arrow shows the direction of force.

You say: "Do a 1/4 turn out, 1/8th turn in..." 1/8th turn back in?? ...do you mean actually change the direction of the force and turn the injector back in 1/8?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Andrew A. Libby wrote:

You should replace that injector heat shield.


Is the heat shield the same thing as these sealing washers... like here?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:

Given that the injection pump shaft bushings are being replaced, there might not have been a need to loosen the injection pump bracket bolts. If you haven't moved the bracket parts I would hold off on doing so until you can see how the belt tracks with the refreshed injection pump bushings.


...I know, I was thinking about that, probably it's too late, I think I moved the brackets around a bit Sad ...anyway, it probably need adjusting anyway since from looking at the IP SPROCKET it is clear that it has been tracking badly for a LONG time.... and also, at least I will get some experience with adjusting the tracking --- in any case I certainly didn't move the brackets around much at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Yes, what you have pictured is the seal/heatshield. Yes the hose when new just pulls off, you will find that your's probably will need a razor blade to split the hose so it easily pulls off.

In the US, the proper braided hose is identified with a light yellow stripe. It is similar to the braided vacuum hose, but is able to stand up to the diesel fuel. The last injector also gets a rubber cap. I carry a few spares and you can make a cap with a short piece of hose and a screw in a jam.


The socket is unique I suppose, because it is thin wall and deep enough to clear the injector. Some cheaper deep sockets are not machined out enough to fit around the injector.

It reads like you understand the directions for not loading the outer casting of the head. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
It is similar to the braided vacuum hose, but is able to stand up to the diesel fuel.

...what are those little braided lines for anyway?? Do they transfer fuel to another injector if too much gets into one, or something?? I don't get it...

MarkWard wrote:

The socket is unique I suppose, .


Let's hope a standard deep socket will work...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:


If you have a 10 amp battery charger (not a smart charger), you can test the glow plugs by clamping the part that threads into the head with the negative cable, clamping the small threads on the end with the positive, and turning it on. It should glow brightly within a few seconds.


I am thinking about finding a battery charger... I want full batteries before cranking it over when I finally do that again. . . . . . . .

I assume everyone would agree with the wisdom of now changing all of the glow plugs > but it would be good to test the old ones because if some of them don't work there is no point in keeping them around as spares!

edit: to test the glow plugs, couldn't I just hook them up to one of my batteries that I have out of the van?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Yes, they are a simple circuit. Normally I would check them with an amp meter when everything is together but yes power and ground and they will glow. The little braided lines are vent lines. The theory is the VW Bosch diesels of that era were self bleeding. These were a way to get the air out of the pressure system. You'll notice they are T'd in at the injection pump return to the tank. In my experience, these systems are not self bleeding. You'd need a very good starter and battery. It is easier to manually prime the system when it has been open. You will want to prime yours when the time comes to start it.

I have a gravity feed rig I made for feeding fuel directly into the pump. I also have a hand pump I made from a fuel bulb that you'd see on an outboard motor. I carry that in the van. Feeding fuel manually into the injection pump while someone cranks it with the injector lines cracked loose at the injectors makes quick work of it.

Also, pay attention to the two banjo bolts on the pump. At a quick glance, they appear interchangeable. That is not the case. The bolt for the return has tiny holes compared to the bolt for the inlet. You can get it to start with the bolts reversed, but it won't rev worth a poop.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

I will need to learn how to manually prime the engine before starting her... I have a drill pump, will that come in handy?

I'm trying my best to remember what goes where, and I'm taking a lot of fotos as I dismantle things...

I went out and change that bolt > it is OK now? Why should it be like this?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Yes, the nut is in the correct orientation now. You'll notice the cup in the bracket for the nut taper to seat in. I know there is some conflicting info, but in my experience, that bolt is probably the most important for holding the pump square to the block. With the nut not seating in the bracket that was not helping.

Unfortunately, you can really only prime the pump once it is installed completely. A drill will not help. The pump needs to turn in time with the crankshaft to meter the fuel out to the injectors.

Others have tried using vacuum on the return side of the pump to pull fuel through the filter from the tank to the pump. I have never tried that method. If you are having the pump serviced, you will want a new fuel filter at the same time. Fill it to the brim with diesel prior to installing. That helps. In a pinch, I have used compressed air in the filler neck to force fuel forward as the engine is cranked with the injector lines cracked loose. That is a bit of a fire drill.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

aha... yes that IP sprocket bolt was originally on incorrectly, and if as you suggest, that particular bolt is critical to correct pump position, then this might have contributed to the bad tracking...

hmmm... priming the IP sounds tricky.
Thanks for the tip regarding the fuel filter, I was going to do that later, but yes it makes more sense to do it now.
Air and oil filters very soon to be changed (along with brake fluid... and I guess even tranny fluid should be done... ...oh the list is l o n g Smile )
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

on the topic of INJECTOR REMOVAL, I came across an intriguing post on another forum:

For undoing don't use a single arm wrench. I cannot see that pushing towards the engine is much better than pulling away from engine.
Better to stand [for transverse engines to the side of the car] and do any push/pulling along engine.
However I don't like to rely purely on that, I use a 'T' bar That restricts the push and pull to equal[ish] amounts of both.
Still better is to add on a pair of VW wheel wrenches which will give you more power and more control.
Best of all to completely overcome leverage, is to add to the bottom of your extenssion bar, a flexi-joint.
Set it so that it is square on with your body, so that you will not find the 'only' way to lever with a flexi joint Shocked

When replacing injectors do not over tighten injectors.
With a heatshield you can feel it 'give', and then stiffen up. That is the nozzle pushing the heatshield out of shape, and the outer part of the injector taking up the slack and sealing nozzle and injector case.
If you have to go much beyond that ,then there is something wrong with the heatshield, or sealing shoulder of the head, or you have some crud in between.


You CAN reuse old heat shields if you want to. Especially if you don't have any to hand. [Order a new set for reserve]
Press back into shape with a 3/8" ball bearing aa M12 nut and a set of Mole grips [vice grips] Reuse can go on for many times, and keeping the same shield in the same hole is good too as each shield is like a finger print. The vice grips give a 'metered' distortion. Do not distort beyond the dimensions of a brand new shield. Best to go slightly less, as the sharp edge has been shaped into a sealing ring. Placing old shield on injector will help to see when you have a gap of about 0.5mm.

I would suggest for all those doubters, then let's do a world wide experiment. Take a heat shield , new or one use old, and using the above method reshape and clamp back down in a spare head. Repeat until shield dies. I bet we will get 15+ out of them. This is an Urban Myth that I want to quash, that they are one use only.

Just because the Bentley says so doesn't make it right. The 'B' says what VAG says... and VAG was on the same learning curve as the rest of us

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

QUESTION ABOUT CRANK BOLT:

- do I need to buy a specialty bolt for this of can I simply get the same sized 6-point bolt from the standard bolt selling place? The specialty bolt is also cheap but I might have to wait for it a few days and make a special trip to pick it up.

EDIT: here are a couple I found online:
6 point
http://www.autokseft.cz/FEBI-Sroub-stojan-loziska-klikova-hridel-FB-18160-18160-nd182194

12 point
http://www.autokelly.cz/Product/FB-09590/1226359/3...9;32968340
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

The crank bolt is a special bolt. I would not use a standard fastener.

The concern about loosening injectors is that if you put any side loads on the injector that push the TOP away from the head, it will overstress the thin lip of aluminum that surrounds the injector and it will crack. Side loads that push the top of the injector toward the head will push the injector toward a completely supported area and avoid the problem. A T-bar should probably work, but IMO is less safe than orienting a typical breaker bar the correct way (which is the way you drew in red). When tightening the injectors you should orient the torque wrench the opposite way.

Once the injector starts to move you want to do the in/out motion rather than just out. Yes, change the direction of rotation. Out a little, in a little, out a little more, in a little, etc... There is often crud that has accumulated in the threads of the injector. If you just spin it out the one direction, the crud balls up on the threads and is the other way that the thin aluminum lip is overstressed. If enough balls up, the boss on the head will pop. Doing the back and forth with the injector relieves that issue.

It is possible to reshape heat shields and have them seal properly. They are not overly expensive, though, and if you have any doubts about the reshaping process, it is better to replace than reuse. If the shield leaks at the nozzle it can cause carbon buildup and make the injector a total pain to remove or almost impossible to rebuild.

Each of the heat shields pictured so far in this thread show the BOTTOM of the heat shield. That side faces the head. The other side faces the injector.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
The crank bolt is a special bolt. I would not use a standard fastener.


OK, I will get this 12point one, and also a 12point socket just for it.

Andrew A. Libby wrote:

There is often crud that has accumulated in the threads of the injector.


Yeah this is exactly what happened with glow plug #3... it even almost felt like it might have been stripped, but I realize now that it was just a build up of crud > next time I will know to do that '2 steps forward - 1 step back' trick - thanks!

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
They are not overly expensive...

really cheap...


Andrew A. Libby wrote:

Each of the heat shields pictured so far in this thread show the BOTTOM of the heat shield. That side faces the head. The other side faces the injector.


ah! Good to clarify, thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

QUESTION ABOUT FILTER(s) SIZES:

I'm about to order AIR, OIL, & FUEL FILTERS.

Should all these filters listed for a JX fit my engine, or are there variations to the sizes ordered and needed?

The OIL filters mostly seem more or less the same sizes. I am thinking about ordering this one:
http://www.autokseft.cz/FEBI-Olejovy-filtr-FB-22540-22540-nd184378

However the FUEL FILTERS seem quite wildly different in sizes... is this normal?
My guess is that I should go out tomorrow in the light and remove my existing fuel filter, and make sure I order the same sized one. This is where they are listed:
http://www.autokseft.cz/Nahradni-dily/VOLKSWAGEN-1...0105_10361

AIR FILTERS?
...these all seem about the same size:
http://www.autokseft.cz/Nahradni-dily/VOLKSWAGEN-1...0105_10360
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
QUESTION ABOUT CRANK BOLT:

- do I need to buy a specialty bolt for this of can I simply get the same sized 6-point bolt from the standard bolt selling place? The specialty bolt is also cheap but I might have to wait for it a few days and make a special trip to pick it up.

EDIT: here are a couple I found online:
6 point
http://www.autokseft.cz/FEBI-Sroub-stojan-loziska-klikova-hridel-FB-18160-18160-nd182194

12 point
http://www.autokelly.cz/Product/FB-09590/1226359/3...9;32968340


At some point VW had a problem with the diesel crank sprocket keys failing. Eventually they did away with using a keyway.

The part numbers that come up for the 1.6 diesel washer and bolt are 068 105 299 and N 801 120 01. The washer has a step that fits inside the timing belt sprocket vs a flat washer like was used early on. Post a picture of your washer when you have a chance. Eventually the later 1.6 diesels had a flat machined into the crank and a boss in the timing sprocket to index it. They took a different bolt and washer with a much higher torque value. I understand from reading, those also ended up being problematic.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

OK, I will post pics of my crank bolt and washer once I actually remove it (just ordering the 27mm deep socket this evening).

Seems T3s have been plagued with crankbolt problems... what kind of problems? Do they loosen and come off?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

The updated crank bolt does not use a washer.

What size wrench fits on your current crank bolt? Is it 19mm or 17mm?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
The updated crank bolt does not use a washer.

What size wrench fits on your current crank bolt? Is it 19mm or 17mm?


yeah, the one I'm thinking of ordering seems to have the washer built in...
is the updated one 17mm 12 point?? [I was about to order a 12 point 19mm just for that bolt - because my current one is a 19mm)

- - -

Jumping now slightly ahead, I have been a bit concern with the waterpump belt tracking (although I know this is less critical)... here are a couple of fotos of before I touched anything... it looks to me like the crank pulley needs to be further OUT. Or perhaps the double-pulley should be further IN, or maybe a tad of both?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
QUESTION ABOUT FILTER(s) SIZES:

I'm about to order AIR, OIL, & FUEL FILTERS.

Should all these filters listed for a JX fit my engine, or are there variations to the sizes ordered and needed?

The OIL filters mostly seem more or less the same sizes. I am thinking about ordering this one:
http://www.autokseft.cz/FEBI-Olejovy-filtr-FB-22540-22540-nd184378

However the FUEL FILTERS seem quite wildly different in sizes... is this normal?
My guess is that I should go out tomorrow in the light and remove my existing fuel filter, and make sure I order the same sized one. This is where they are listed:
http://www.autokseft.cz/Nahradni-dily/VOLKSWAGEN-1...0105_10361

AIR FILTERS?
...these all seem about the same size:
http://www.autokseft.cz/Nahradni-dily/VOLKSWAGEN-1...0105_10360


All oil filters are the same from that age up to the 1Z/AHU Tdi You can use even the AFN one but it is shorter a bit. I am using a brand named Filtron that made in poland as it is one of the cheapest ones but has good pressure valve.

The fuel filter varies per year. The screw on type was used up to '87 or '88 models where it was changed to the valved type. Sometimes mechanics change both type to the two nipple version used on all other VWs as it more commonly available in their inventory.

The 295mm tall air filter is what you need for an original cyllindrical air filter housing.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1.6 TD JX timing belt change / injector pump timing set Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Andrew A. Libby wrote:
The updated crank bolt does not use a washer.

What size wrench fits on your current crank bolt? Is it 19mm or 17mm?


yeah, the one I'm thinking of ordering seems to have the washer built in...
is the updated one 17mm 12 point?? [I was about to order a 12 point 19mm just for that bolt - because my current one is a 19mm)

- - -

Jumping now slightly ahead, I have been a bit concern with the waterpump belt tracking (although I know this is less critical)... here are a couple of fotos of before I touched anything... it looks to me like the crank pulley needs to be further OUT. Or perhaps the double-pulley should be further IN, or maybe a tad of both?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The new type bolt is 19mm 12point

In my PM where we were discussing the waterpumps and locally available manufacturers in general, I mentioned that this type of misalignment is what I have with the cheapest pump. The casting of the pump is thicker than OE (maybe Bosch) so the pulley is out compared to the original.
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