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AFM (air flow meter) MAF (mass air flow sensor) T2 ID
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: AFM (air flow meter) MAF (mass air flow sensor) T2 ID Reply with quote

According to the Bentley manual air flow sensors are different for different years

Early 75 = 022 906 301 C
Late 75 = 022 906 301 A
Early 76 = 022 906 301 A
Late 76 = 022 906 301 B
77 & later = 022 906 301 D
79 calif = 039 906 301
The # on my late 76 is 0 280 200 020

Im guessing that the early 75 had carbs so the sensor would be different
But for the rest what is the difference between these
What would likely happen if I put a sensor from a later or earlier modal?

And why does the air sensor in my bus have a whole other #

i think this is a part worth learning about
maybe the wire connections is different ?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bus has carbs, there would be no airflow sensor. Only FI engines utilized the air flow sensor. Many manufacturers and engines used AFC fuel injection. It is not unreasonable to expect that a 20 year old bus may have had an Air Flow Sensor swapped out. The number may have been superseded in some cases. The differences could be very subtle from sensor to sensor. The early AFM had a back fire valve built into the sensor door. Those would fail and spit the parts out the tail pipe and then the engine if it ran, ran like dodo. I'd do a google search on the bentley numbers and yours. See what comes up.
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Karl
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: AFM (air flow meter) ID Reply with quote

Uh.... no.... all the numbers you listed are DECEL valves except the last one: The numbers have been corrected. Tcash

Early 75 = 022 906 301 C
Late 75 = 022 906 301 A
Early 76 = 022 906 301 A
Late 76 = 022 906 301 B
77 & later = 022 906 301 D
79 calif = 039 906 301

The AFM [air flow meter] has these numbers:

74-75- early 76 up to vin 2x6 2077 583 build date to the end of 12/75:
0280 200 012 [6 pins]

mid 76-77 from vin 2x6 2077 584 and build date 01/76:
0280 200 018 [7 pins]

78 and 79 Fed:
0280 200 020 [Vw subbed the 018 to this one and it also fits in place of the 018]

79 Cal:
0280 200 022
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i found out the 0 280 200 020 in my bus is the bosch replacment part#
022 906 301 A B or D is the vw part#
so at least now i know there is a bosch & a VW air flow senser

so the bosch 020 is the newer version of 018 & can be swapped
what about 022(vw 039 906 301 for a CA 79 ) by the time this came around there were more emission laws
would a 022 fit in place of 020
why or why not?
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Karl
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the 022 is for 79 Calif only. 79 Calif has an O2 sensor. no resistor pack for the injectors, and a 13 pin double relay instead of 11 pin.

Differences in the FI make the AFM run different. You can put a 020 on a 79 Cal but it will run like crap.
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how will a 022 run in a pre-79
now i know a fi from 79 wont fit other bays
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Karl
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to say.... the 022 is one-year-only and very hard to find. That was why I said a 020 on a 79 Cal runs like crap!
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karl thanks for your wisdom
my bus is a 76vin# 23662146908
the sensor on it now is 020
which would be for 77-up
should i have the 022 906 301
a or b sensor i have an op
to buy a nos A
would that be the right one?
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Karl
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vw76westy wrote:
karl thanks for your wisdom
my bus is a 76vin# 23662146908
the sensor on it now is 020
which would be for 77-up
should i have the 022 906 301
a or b sensor i have an op
to buy a nos A
would that be the right one?


You have too many numbers in your vin! I assume the 2nd 6 does not belong.....

You have a late 76.

The first 2 means type 2 [bus].

The next number, the 3, means it is a kombi. The 2nd digit denotes model.
1 = Kastenwagen (Panel Van and later for having windows and/or top cut out for campers)
2 = Neunsitzer-bus or Achtsitzer-bus (Standard or Station Wagon 8-seater, 9-seater)
3 = Kombi (Kombi, Kombi for Fire Trucks, and Campmobile)
4 = Sondermodell (Special model, 8- and 9-seater)
5 = Sondermodell (Special Model, 7-seater)
6 = Pritschewagen (Single and Double Cabs, Pickup Truck)
7 = Krankenwagen (Ambulance)
8 = Siebensitzer Bus (7-seater bus)

The next number, the 6 denotes year. 1976.

The next number, the 2, denotes 2nd generation of bays.
The best way to explain this: VW started using this vin system in 1965. So lets say you have a 1966 kombi and it has vin number 236123456. The 1970 year model started the 2 as the 4th digit.
Well, 1976 comes along and VW is still building buses. And it has 236 because it is a 1976 kombi same a that 66. And lets say the last 6 are 123456. Yep, same as the 66. That is why VW put the 2 in there.

The last 6 are the sequential serial number.

Remember when I said the spilt between the 6 pin 012 AFM and the 7 pin 018 was at 2x6 2077 583?

That x I put in takes the place of whatever model you have, either a 2 or a 3 or a 6. Whatever. What you are concerned with are the last 6 digits.

Mid 76 and up from vin 077584 is lower than yours. 146908

So the 020 is correct. Someone replaced the 018.

0 280 200 018 = 022 906 301 B

What is wrong with your AFM?

And who has a NOS AFM???? Are you sure it is not a remanufatured or rebuilt one?

0 280 200 012 = 022 906 301 A
0 280 200 020 = 022 906 301 D
0 280 200 022 = 039 906 301
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill tell everyone this secret of mine
call the VW dealer tell them your looking for part #
never mention what its for or for what year
if some dealer somwhere in the country has that part#
they will send it to you New Old Stock from dealer
sometimes you have to be really really nice for the parts guy to hunt down that part
they found one but its the 301A

the one i have kind of works
bus passed smog in ca twice(2yrs apart)
but the sensor wont pass the bentley test
over the last year or 2 ive been looking for another one
but every one i came across has had a different ## on it
made me wonder if there interchangable

so to be clear the 301a wont work with mine
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any idea if there are any differences in the resistance strip from model to model? Also does anyone know of a reasonably priced source for resistance strips and other AFM parts. I have always just mined good resistance strips for otherwise questionable AFM's and put them into better ones, buy having a source of new parts would be better.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bringing up an older thread because this was something I just ran into myself..


the PO of my CA 79 bay said the spare AFM in the bus made it run REALLY well once warmed up, but it would run like crap until it was warm.

the spare AFM is the 0280 200 020 mentioned above that is supposed to be specific to the federal 78-79

the one in the van already was the correct 79 CA 022 model and has been working fine.

I was cleaning things up in the engine compartment last night and swapped the 020 over and tried it this morning. It idled very poorly and stumbled while warming up. once warm it did seem to feel a little more 'peppier' but it also had stumbling issues under idle.

I have a feeling the 020 would work OK if it was cleaned up/etc, but there certainly is some difference in the AFM itself that throws off how it runs. I thought initially that the computer would be taking into account the oxygen sensor and other data and making adjustments that way, but there must be something more to the AFM than just the 3 available adjustments (black cog, silver slider and idle bypass)

After a bit more reading it seems all the difference is in the AFM itself and not the ECU's, as members mentioned being able to swap the ECU and see no difference but swapping the AFM's made a huge impact.

it would be interesting to know what really is the difference in them, outside of the available adjustments, because apparently you cannot simply adjust one 7 pin AFM to run like another 7 pin AFM...
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maximan1
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it. What year AFMs are interchangable?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of...it is all in the number of pins you have....

Might want to go here and scroll down a ways....

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FISwap.html
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 0280200022 (1979 California) that I picked up from a local bug guy here in Sacramento that is supposed to be NOS. The patina looks like it could be as the wiper board looks like it was never used so it may be a NOS unit that just sat out of the box in a garage for years. He bought it at an estate sale. It doesn't appear to have ever been adjusted. All I did is pop the cover off to make sure the board looked like it really is NOS. According to Karl's (RIP) notes prior it is the hard one to find. I have $80 in it and will sell at that price but only to someone who has a 1979 California bus. Edit - I just listed it in classifieds.

Ironically, buying it and researching it accidently led to a stash of NOS Bosch parts in their sealed boxes that I am negocitating with the owner for a list and prices for TheSamba so stay tuned. As you can see in the third and fourth photos below, here is a 0280200018 from that sealed NOS batch. I broke the seal so I know it was sealed with Bosch tape. It cost substantially more than $80 but is a sealed box unit - next to impossible to find today as they are no longer made. The person who has them used to be a fairly large Bosch dealer and they finally started consoldating some of their old boxes of Bosch stuff. I will post more on this once I get a list from them as to what he has and what he wants for those items. They know they have a gold mine so I wouldn't expect give away prices.



0280200022 from Sacramento bug guy who bought it at estate sale (pm me if you have a need and a 1979 California bus)

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0280200018 (purchased from Bosch stash while I was on the road to go to my father's funeral in VA - sometimes I wonder if his hand led me to these as they both appeared within 48 hours of one another. This one is not for sale)

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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey in a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

It isn't our fault you bought a 50-year old toy you can't afford. None of us can afford it really. Even Steve Jobs had to sell his bus to make his financial life work.

1971 (sold)
1977


Last edited by SGKent on Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
bringing up an older thread because this was something I just ran into myself..


the PO of my CA 79 bay said the spare AFM in the bus made it run REALLY well once warmed up, but it would run like crap until it was warm.

the spare AFM is the 0280 200 020 mentioned above that is supposed to be specific to the federal 78-79

the one in the van already was the correct 79 CA 022 model and has been working fine.

I was cleaning things up in the engine compartment last night and swapped the 020 over and tried it this morning. It idled very poorly and stumbled while warming up. once warm it did seem to feel a little more 'peppier' but it also had stumbling issues under idle.

I have a feeling the 020 would work OK if it was cleaned up/etc, but there certainly is some difference in the AFM itself that throws off how it runs. I thought initially that the computer would be taking into account the oxygen sensor and other data and making adjustments that way, but there must be something more to the AFM than just the 3 available adjustments (black cog, silver slider and idle bypass)

After a bit more reading it seems all the difference is in the AFM itself and not the ECU's, as members mentioned being able to swap the ECU and see no difference but swapping the AFM's made a huge impact.

it would be interesting to know what really is the difference in them, outside of the available adjustments, because apparently you cannot simply adjust one 7 pin AFM to run like another 7 pin AFM...



The difference that change how one virtually identical FM runs as compared to another....as long as wires are the same.....are differences in spring calibration and slight difference to flap shape over certain years.

If there were enough interest any decent membrane switch printer could reproduce the boards. You would have to take a board to them to have a CAD layer print done.....but printing the carbon strip is easy. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is the laser calibration of those boards that is hard to replicate. The board is broken into segments that are 2 dimensional in resistance. Move the board on either the X or Y axis and it changes how the device reads as the wiper moves across it. The laser burns are to adjust the voltage of each segment. If you pull a new board out of one unit and put it in another the map changes unless you can get the X and Y cordinates exactly the same as they were in the unit the board was taken out of. I tried it with one unit a year ago as FIC gave me a new board to replace an old one that was worn thru on a unit. After hours of working on it, trying to get the calibration down I gave up.

I roughly used a postal scale on the new unit to measure how much force it takes to open the door a tiny bit. On the NOS 018 it is about 90 - 100 grams. When the door is open to where the side of the door aligns with the side of the meter it is 150 grams. The 022 unit is about 15 grams more pressure at the same spots. That would make the 022 leaner however that makes sense as the California 1979 unit has an O2 sensor in the system for that year. The O2 sensor would richen the mixture (the ECU can never go leaner than default, only richer.) That gives the O2 sensor a window of leaner and richer to operate in.
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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey in a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

It isn't our fault you bought a 50-year old toy you can't afford. None of us can afford it really. Even Steve Jobs had to sell his bus to make his financial life work.

1971 (sold)
1977
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
it is the laser calibration of those boards that is hard to replicate. The board is broken into segments that are 2 dimensional in resistance. Move the board on either the X or Y axis and it changes how the device reads as the wiper moves across it. The laser burns are to adjust the voltage of each segment. If you pull a new board out of one unit and put it in another the map changes unless you can get the X and Y cordinates exactly the same as they were in the unit the board was taken out of. I tried it with one unit a year ago as FIC gave me a new board to replace an old one that was worn thru on a unit. After hours of working on it, trying to get the calibration down I gave up.

I roughly used a postal scale on the new unit to measure how much force it takes to open the door a tiny bit. On the NOS 018 it is about 90 - 100 grams. When the door is open to where the side of the door aligns with the side of the meter it is 150 grams. The 022 unit is about 15 grams more pressure at the same spots. That would make the 022 leaner however that makes sense as the California 1979 unit has an O2 sensor in the system for that year. The O2 sensor would richen the mixture (the ECU can never go leaner than default, only richer.) That gives the O2 sensor a window of leaner and richer to operate in.



Again...any decent membrane switch printer can readily replicate these. They are dirt simple....laser calibration and all. In fact, I had one of my clients that displayed just the example of equipment at our most recent trade show...live . From printed board or film circuit ...with anything from silver to carbon and exact laser finishing in line...in seconds....from as you note....tuning burns to final trim and layering.

In fact the tuning burns are alomost never done anymore when it is simpler to engineer the print area for the final resistance or current you need. Ray
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VeeDubb steppin
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? Reply with quote

[img]Help , help and more help ...please I have several dilemas with what used to be a 1974 high top bus , with the hard to find parts for early auto transmission it now has swapped engine # GE023341 ,which appears to be a 77 or 78. This is an odd creature . first of all it has what appears to be a very early fuel injected or possibly Cal F.I. setup . If anyone has seen this , the airbox mount is different than the 76 and later models? { I will try to post pictures of it . Well I tried to replace the " S " hose with the later 76 and later hose , and lo and behold ,I could not get it to match . Is it different , or is it me ? It also had a " 6 pin AFM " with what appears to be a cruel joke ,the lid from another AFM . cover # VW 022 906 301 D which appears to be from the 77 78 engine , but it cant be since it is a six pin ?My second question is ...are there any other way to Idetify these ?.Now , may be the time to go get a cold one ,because this is a long winding quest . Okay so I decided to cut out the oddball airbox mount and have an airbox mount and 7 pin afm and box from a 77/78 parts bus , now this little gem is a Fuel Injection Corp rebuild , with get this ...a blaqnk lid , cruel joke # 2 it does have a F.I.corp # 45976 sticker on it . It had some green copper oxidization on the lug terminals so I removed it and cleaned/light emory clothed it and replaced it , I did not mess with the internals otherwise .Question # 3 and 4 .do you think I changed its adjustment ? and does anyone know what model it may be . So my plan of action appears to be 1.] weld in the new Air box mount , order a new 7 pin F.I. harness from " KYLE " who by the way is a very nice and helpful /knowledgable human . 2.} use ecu VW # 022 906 021 T ... however question 5 and 6 ,Upon inspection of said unit I noticed what appears to be a " half broken " terminal # 18, depending of course on how the box is oriented it appear[img]s to be the very upper right terminal , and upon removing box cover is marked " 18 . Now then when I look at the parts bus the wiring harness ECU connector for # 18 is blank , so ...you guessed it ,my next question will this unit function correctly like this , and or if not does/will anyone repair this single lug to salvage this box... due to the fact that I'm a " junkyard " welder type and suck at finess soldering ! This bus has some Odball early F.I. components that have really puzzled me , any and all help is greatly appreciated here ,as this is my first VW project , I think the whole VW community is awesome , Ratwell, Amskeptic etc etc there is so much of a following for these things , I was " Clueless " but Im a devotee now . I do however find the wiring diagrams TOTALLY confusing , but I never did claim to be the sharpest pencil in the box , but I am determined ... This is my Sistahz bus so Im doing this for how do you say Quid Pro Quo ...hell I dunno... thanks for all the help and sorry for the life story length and spelling punctuation errors , i'm told I'm very " stream of conscioussness type writer ...Thanxz Again " WyoBen ' VeeDub Steppin Out
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? Reply with quote

I can't follow your comments in flow of consciousness.

What is your question?
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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey in a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

It isn't our fault you bought a 50-year old toy you can't afford. None of us can afford it really. Even Steve Jobs had to sell his bus to make his financial life work.

1971 (sold)
1977
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