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Cold start / hot start
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boomtown
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

I've had such good advice from this forum I have a second question regarding a second engine.

Our 65 bug running a 1600 DP starts cold with about two cranks. After driving about twenty minutes to the store and then shopping with a return to the bug after 20 minutes it takes about eight cranks to get the engine to start.

Things I've tried, not touching the accelerator pedal, touching the pedal to set the automatic choke, pumping the pedal once, twice.

the timing is about 10 degrees BTDC
dwell 44 degrees
plugs .024
valves .006

I know it's not a huge problem because it starts but doesn't seem correct. What am I missing?

as always thanks in advance.

David
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hobbybob517
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

heat soak maybee?

is all your tin in place?

also did you check your valves?
Edit: sorry i read past your valve clearance.
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

It's perfectly fine and normal. It's not a modern car with fuel injection, it won't start w/ the same number of cranks every time.

The owner's manual has advice about hot starting and cold starting.

For warm/hot starting you are not supposed to pump the pedal.

You don't touch the gas, you start cranking, and while cranking you slowly depress the gas pedal (do not pump!). At some point, usually before you get to WOT, it'll start but if not just hold it at WOT till it starts.

If you pump the pedal you're adding too much fuel - each pump of the pedal is a squirt of gas down the carb throat from the accelerator pump.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Could be you need to clean, dielectric grease and retighten all the electrical connections to get rid of voltage drops.

When did you last clean/grease both ends of both battery cables, and same for the transaxle to body grounding strap?
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CarlIseminger
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

To start my hot engine, I follow the owner's manual instructions.

While cranking the engine over, I slowly press the gas pedal to the floor. Usually catches after three cranks.
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DeathTrap
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Hot start my opinion
push gas pedal down a little (like about a fast idle amount)
cranks the motor over a few revolutions (maybe it's started by now)
if not keep cranking while pressing the gas pedal to about 1/2 way slowly while cranking Vroooom

there are thos times it may even take the procedure twice
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theKbStockpiler
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

A carburetor has no ability to adapt to it's environment except for a choke and the fact that you can usually run a engine rich to solve most of it's short comings. Therefore a carbureted engine is not going to operate like it is controlled by a computer.

You could also have a heat riser issue or the engine is not actually warmed up at that time either but warm enough so the choke is fully open and staying that way,causing it to lean out in the manifold.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Since you are way down South, guessing your weather pretty nice and warm right now. Have you checked a few times for fuel dripping down the carb throat for at least ten minutes after shut down? Have had same problem with our early 1960s type 2s that caused same starting problem.
With fixing the electrical drops and fuel dripping solved the type 2s with 6 and 12 volt electricals start up almost instantly with warm engine in warm weather.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Which distributor are you using??
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garyt
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

For hot I would put pedal to floor slowly before trying to start with the key. Worked for years for me.
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Mint74bug
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

That's normal. For hot start, you should have the accelerator pedal pressed down most of the way, then crank, and as soon as it starts, let off. I believe that's the procedure in a VW manual somewhere. All I know for sure is that it works.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Hey boomtown, you've been given some great advice here. If you would like to learn further technical details about your car, you could learn to do a fuel pressure test, and you can check the fuel level of the carb fuel bowl.

Most local auto parts stores will rent a low-pressure fuel pressure gauge. (Often times it doubles as a vacuum gauge too!) From there, you can attach it straight to the fuel pump and start the engine. Blip the throttle a few times, and let the idle settle. The reading on the gauge, according to Bentley, is something like 3psi-5psi. I like 3psi-3.5psi, because I find that higher pressure in the main line can percolate out past the needle valve easier.

The "bowl fuel level test" is to let the engine idle for about 20 seconds, then stop the car. Remove the air cleaner, and then the 5 flat-head screws on top of the carb. Carefully remove the top piece of the carb, being careful not to rip the gasket, and use a SMALL ruler in millimeters to measure the height of the fuel in the bowl. It should be approximately 19.5mm +/- 1mm. Any higher fuel (lower number!) will create a tougher hot start condition. Any lower than the tolerance can create a lean condition at speed and heat up your engine extra nicely. Sad

Let us know if you want to go down the rabbit hole and learn these parts of tuning your engine. They're fun, I promise. Very Happy

Robbie
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boomtown
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold start / hot start Reply with quote

Good advise and thanks again.

I'm now using the procedure in the owners manual and starting seems much better. I have a 009 distributor . Yes there is a slight gas smell after shut down so I will have to check my fuel pressure. This weekend was the No Dough Bus Show and the bug did awesome Friday and Sunday but the bus was finicky at the Bullie Brigade. A question on that topic will be posted later. Two years ago I bought an original owners manual and put it in the glove box, I guess I should have read it and not just used it for display.

You guys are the best, thanks

David
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