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S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement
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furgo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Has anyone had any luck replacing the crumbled to rust connector from the S-Boot to the crankcase breather hose?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After ordering the right part (025 133 199), I found out that it's now made of plastic (good), but it's alltogether a different molding (not so cool). It's weird that the part was changed so radically without being revision-controled with a letter suffix, btw.

You can see it on the picture below: it's mostly the flared ends that make the connection a bit awkward. On the breather hose side, the flare makes it difficult to get the whole length of the connector into the hose, but it's on the S-Boot side where I can't see this working.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The depth of the duct at the S-Boot is 19 mm, which matches well with the original part (18 mm deep). Yet the new part has got a ca. 7 mm flare that leaves less than 11 mm in contact with the duct wall. Not so good for preventing vacuum leaks, as the connection feels a bit loose too.

Any success stories of someone having replaced it or modified it?

Right now the fit is so bad that I'm thinking of cutting the long end to match the original part's length and removing (i.e. flattening) the flare at the other end, so that when finished the two parts look the same.
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Last edited by furgo on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

What happens if you put a few wraps of electrical tape in the gap?
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Use a stubby piece of 3/4" copper pipe.

3/4" copper is 7/8" OD

7/8" == 22.225MM

It should fit securely in the S-boot just from the tiny extra OD, but if you're concerned about it working loose give it a bare smear of gasket cement to help glue it in there, stuff it in the hole and walk away for 10 minutes for the goop to set up before clamping the hose back on.

Problem solved.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Take a look on McMaster carr. You can buy 6/6 nylon tube by the foot. The 22mm size is very slightly under 7/8". That size has an ID of .75".....so wall section of 1/16th".

Or you can get it in 5/8" ID which is 1/8" wall section.five feet of this is about $18.

I would take a piece of this cut to correct length, bevel the ends/openings and score a groove around the outside where the flange is and put in an external snap ring or E-clip to make a flange.

Items like this can usually be found at most plastic supply houses. And.....if you drop by....you can usually buy for pennies....what tbey describe as "drop"....which is the scraps leftover from cutting an order to length for other customers.

In tube or rod.....most plastics houses save the scrap pieces in a box to sell to pe9ple just like us looking for bushing material. Ray
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Depending on how the swages are made, you can either just saw them off or use a file or grinder to reduce their outside diameter, though I would first try to use it as is to see if it would work.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Ask what diameter these are?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1906982
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furgo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the help. From what I see, it seems not many folks, if at all, have used the new part, but there are enough alternatives:

1. Modding the original part: filing away the flare on the short end and cutting off the long end
2. Copper tube
3. Nylon tube

To answer some of the questions/replies:

Randy in Maine wrote:
What happens if you put a few wraps of electrical tape in the gap?


I'm not sure what you mean by the gap. If you mean the space between flare and the "ring" in the inner section, tape would not help. The flare is too wide for the S-Boot in any case (it REALLY needs to be forced to get in), so redimensioning the gap to be the same diameter would help with vacuum, but it would make it even a tighter fit. And with tighter here I don't mean snug, I mean forcing the S-Boot way too much.

Wildthings wrote:
Depending on how the swages are made, you can either just saw them off or use a file or grinder to reduce their outside diameter, though I would first try to use it as is to see if it would work.


Yeah, that's what I thought I'd do. And I did try to fit first (I wouldn't have gone all the trouble of doing the measuring and writing the post otherwise). It was really a poor fit. Essentially:

The flare is way too big for the S-Boot duct diameter, and the S-Boot is not that flexible in that area (thick patch of rubber). It needs really brute force to be pushed in. I pushed it midway through only, as I realised if I pushed it all the way I'd never get it out without damaging either the part or the S-Boot
In addition to that, the flare makes that not the whole surface area is in contact with the S-Boot, screaming for a vacuum leak.

raygreenwood wrote:
I would take a piece of this cut to correct length, bevel the ends/openings and score a groove around the outside where the flange is and put in an external snap ring or E-clip to make a flange.


The flange is the part that's not needed in this part, it fits by friction and by having the whole of its surface contact the S-Boot duct's wall. Otherwise a great suggestion with the nylon tube, and I'll note this down for the next time I do need a flange.

Tcash wrote:
Ask what diameter these are?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1906982


Thanks. I think rather than the diameter, I would ask what they look like inside. But looking at the outside, it makes me think that I do not want to replace a rusty piece of metal with another rusty one. I'm going nylon or copper Smile

As a side note, it was not just the inside that was full of rust flakes. My picture shows the part after some minor cleaning, but the outside of it was also rusty enough to have swollen and bitten into the rubber tube. Which looking at its other end, it would have been in pretty good shape had it not been for the rusty little pipe cutting into it.

For now, I'll use some RTV to temporarily fix the cracks inside the hose, and then I'll look for a replacement. I'm aware of the GeeBee option, but I'll also be looking for other alternatives.
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Get your dremel out with a cutting wheel. Wrap a piece of tape around it to make a perfect line. Cut off the flared ends, dress them with some fine sand paper. The fit is so tight that imho there is no need to get the center ribbed point inside the boot. If it concerns you you can put a light smear of rubber permatex between the ridge of the pipe and the inlet of the boot. I would not suggest using a saw of any type. It will likey break the plastic pipe before you get both flares cut off. The short side goes into the boot, cut the other side to the same length as original and it connects to the hose. It's that simple and it will last forever. Hope this helps.
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Sprink1es
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

I had the opposite problem. Metal connector was fine, but PO put a crappy radiator hose (where part #18 is) and it was collapsed/pinched in the elbow. I finally found a remedy on Amazon and made my own out of 2 hoses... but I'll bookmark this in case the connector ever goes bad Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

How about this? Put the long end into the boot, the swage should fit all the way in and prevent the fitting from ever accidentally coming out. Do whatever you feel is necessary to the short end to get the hose to fit well: grind the swage down, use a spring clamp on the hose, etc.
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

The problem is you can't get the swage into the boot. I did not even try to get the intended center raised ring into the boot. The fit is incredibly tight. Using a GEEBEE or good original hose requires no clamps. The reason VW did not use clamps on this hose and the L shaped hose was because they were intended to "blow off" in the event of a large backfire. If they are clamped they can and will destroy your AFM.
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furgo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Hoody wrote:
Get your dremel out with a cutting wheel. Wrap a piece of tape around it to make a perfect line. Cut off the flared ends, dress them with some fine sand paper. The fit is so tight that imho there is no need to get the center ribbed point inside the boot. If it concerns you you can put a light smear of rubber permatex between the ridge of the pipe and the inlet of the boot. I would not suggest using a saw of any type. It will likey break the plastic pipe before you get both flares cut off. The short side goes into the boot, cut the other side to the same length as original and it connects to the hose. It's that simple and it will last forever. Hope this helps.


It does indeed, thanks. Finally someone who had seen the dreaded part too! Smile

One thing I'll try to do is to reduce the swage on the short end to the diameter of the rest of the tube first, so that the connector ends up being the length it was supposed to be and there is more contact area with the S-Boot hole. If it doesn't work out, I can always cut it off as suggested.

Hoody wrote:
The problem is you can't get the swage into the boot. I did not even try to get the intended center raised ring into the boot. The fit is incredibly tight.


Exactly. That's what I've tried to convey throughout the whole thread, it is that tight. But rather than saying again that you need brute force to get it in, let me state it another way: due to the swaged ends, you CAN'T get either end of the connector into the S-Boot.

I did try both ends, and I stopped when I realized I'd probably damage the S-Boot.
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furgo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Well I ended up modding the plastic VW part I had gotten, as it seemed to me the easiest option since I already had it.

Here's what it looks like after having cut it to size and filed off the swage:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Some remains of the swage are still there, but they shouldn't make a difference and I had to stop filing at some point, so I left it at there.

As expected, the new part locks into the S-Boot, slightly better than the rusted metallic pipe:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And fits well to the breather hose too:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


No more rust! Smile

Next step: fixing the small inside cracks in the breather hose, but that's another topic...
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Gregg in the 603
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

The pipe is supposed to slot inside the hole, with the ridge riding inside the lip internally. The ridge is not meant as a stopper for the pipe.
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furgo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Gregg in the 603 wrote:
The pipe is supposed to slot inside the hole, with the ridge riding inside the lip internally. The ridge is not meant as a stopper for the pipe.


Ah, really? The original metal tube did not have the ridge inserted in the hole, so that's what I went with. Neither had the Y-piece above, both were inserted into the S-Boot only up to the ridge.

It does make sense that it's inside though, as there is a recess. After pushing really hard, I didn't quite manage, though. I'll have to give it another go again tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

the ridge goes in the slot in the S-boot for it.
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furgo
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

Finally a flat, blunt screwdriver and abundant cursing did it:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks everyone, I'm glad I posted the pictures and someone noticed the connector pipe needed the extra push!

Now I'm not looking forward to doing the same for the Y piece on the other S-boot port just above...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Boot to crankcase breather connector replacement Reply with quote

I like boiling a pot of water then removing it from heat, and then placing the s-boot in the water once the bubbles are gone. Give it a few minutes, extract it with tongs, and have gloves on. The "chimney" and "Y" will slide right in. Allow to air dry before sealing the cracks and painting if you're that kind of person. Cool

I used to use grease before I learned that certain greases will cause harm in the long term to certain rubber compounds.

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