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rotaecho
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 531
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 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mark,
I know the engine mounts are NLA and the 83' rubbers are available unless you go the SAAB mount option.
However, is there any replacement parts for the rubber bushings at both ends and mounting brackets?
Seems like that'd need some updating possibly too.
| MarkWard wrote: |
The bar above is from an 83. Notice it is solid bolted to the Vanagon chassis. The 82 bar has rubber bushings at both ends and mounting brackets. You would think the 82 bar is better isolated. The other difference was the engine mount which can't be seen above. The 82 had a smaller engine mount and different mounting from the 83. I would also like to emphasize. My conversion runs down the road very smooth. There is a harmonic/vibration when going up through the gears at a particular rpm area. It is more pronounced in the lower gears. Not enough to dump it, but enough to spend some brain energy on. I have to believe the stock 82 L/S rubber engine mount has more load and weigh on it than it was designed for hence the reason for possibly upgrading it to something more suitable. Plus they are NLA from VWOA. cheers
Here is a photo of the LS 82 carrier showing the mounting to the chassis.
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_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 19073
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:27 am Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Hello, I just noticed this thread popped back up. Look at these as an aftermarket solution.
http://www.energysuspension.com/universal-products...ators.html
I have not used them for the vanagon carrier bars, but use them all over my racecar. Worse case, you'd have to cut the ends off the bars and weld in tube that would accept these bushings. When I reindexed my r/s bar to fit the AC compressor, I ended up cutting the factory end off and rewelding it level. |
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rotaecho
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Thanks for the feed-back. I haven't taken the engine out yet to see how bad they are. It's going to happen soon for the conversion, just trying to gets as much info as possible.
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-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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CHARLIE-DONT-SURF
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Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 335
Location: Cow County, UK
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Hi all.
For those running Audi 5000 mounts on a 50º gas I4 with diesel oil pan and diesel Vanagon mount arms off the engine.....
Is it normal for the mount to be so close to the oil pan?
Image showing passenger side Audi mount position on my in progress ABA swap
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12177
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Neil, have you fully committed to the Audi 5000 mounts? I ask because I've found that it's much easier to use a center top/bottom post type mount like the Passat/A4 1.8t hydraulic mounts, and they have a smaller footprint which would be less likely to interfere in the manner in which we see in your pic. Just a thought.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Neil, have you fully committed to the Audi 5000 mounts? I ask because I've found that it's much easier to use a center top/bottom post type mount like the Passat/A4 1.8t hydraulic mounts, and they have a smaller footprint which would be less likely to interfere in the manner in which we see in your pic. Just a thought.
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Thanks Casey. No, not committed yet. That mount you show certainly looks like a better solution. Since I'll likely lower the engine by 2.5" so it can clear the engine lid, part of my "madness" was to create a bracket on the carrier arms that would accommodate raising the engine back to "OEM" position without to much modification. However. Maybe the mount you show would work to that end. It would require less fabrication anyways. I know that Tony (91Transporter16" ) shows an Audi mount for his brackets. IIRC, that mount has ears. A mount with ears would help my idea.
The images below show a larger gap between the Audi 5000 mount and pan. But maybe thats not an Audi 5000 mount  And maybe that pan is different?
Anyhow..... I think a different mount is the way to go. I was ready to fur the arm away from the block a little to accommodate the Audi 5000 mount but that's the wrong way to go about this.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
...... However. Maybe the mount you show would work to that end. It would require less fabrication anyways. I know that Tony (91Transporter16" ) shows an Audi mount for his brackets. IIRC, that mount has ears. A mount with ears would help my idea.
Anyhow..... I think a different mount is the way to go.
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from one of Tony's posts
mount PN
357 199 402b or
100 199 0028
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| Neil, have you fully committed to the Audi 5000 mounts? I ask because I've found that it's much easier to use a center top/bottom post type mount like the Passat/A4 1.8t hydraulic mounts, |
Thanks again Casey. I've decided to go with the
357 199 402b
part. They'll be from the "dealership" so should be decent quality. Technically they're transmission mounts but should suffice. A very rough guess suggests they're not much bigger than the Saab mounts but for sure shorter than the 1.8T mount you point to. Though the 1.8T mount looks quite stout, a shorter one will help my crazy efforts to make the mount bracket so the position (height) could be adjusted later on.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Hello, what engine bars are these?
Any place to buy them?
Thx
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Neil, have you fully committed to the Audi 5000 mounts? I ask because I've found that it's much easier to use a center top/bottom post type mount like the Passat/A4 1.8t hydraulic mounts, and they have a smaller footprint which would be less likely to interfere in the manner in which we see in your pic. Just a thought.
|
Thanks Casey. No, not committed yet. That mount you show certainly looks like a better solution. Since I'll likely lower the engine by 2.5" so it can clear the engine lid, part of my "madness" was to create a bracket on the carrier arms that would accommodate raising the engine back to "OEM" position without to much modification. However. Maybe the mount you show would work to that end. It would require less fabrication anyways. I know that Tony (91Transporter16" ) shows an Audi mount for his brackets. IIRC, that mount has ears. A mount with ears would help my idea.
The images below show a larger gap between the Audi 5000 mount and pan. But maybe thats not an Audi 5000 mount And maybe that pan is different?
Anyhow..... I think a different mount is the way to go. I was ready to fur the arm away from the block a little to accommodate the Audi 5000 mount but that's the wrong way to go about this.
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_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Hi.
itzdshtz made these bars. Please see this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672283&highlight=diesel+carrier
Hope that helps,
Neil.
| syncrogreg wrote: |
Hello, what engine bars are these?
Any place to buy them?
Thx
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[/quote]
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5274
Location: denver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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I thought I'd piggyback onto this thread to see if anybody recognizes these mounts, from my 15 degree ABA Syncro:
"6 ARP 2366." I've been searching for part numbers or photos and haven't been able to find anything. I'd like to find a better solution to reduce vibration.
Thanks!
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
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Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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In your first image, at the bottom steel plate bonded to bottom of rubber, is that ear touching the bracket mounted to engine?
I googled "2366 engine mount" and got some Toyota hits. 22R and t100 but thats just a total guess.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5274
Location: denver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
In your first image, at the bottom steel plate bonded to bottom of rubber, is that ear touching the bracket mounted to engine?
I googled "2366 engine mount" and got some Toyota hits. 22R and t100 but thats just a total guess.
Neil. |
Thanks Neil, I just noticed that myself...I will check them after work. Both of them appear to be very close if not touching. Metal on metal would certainly create vibrations!
2366 represents the CC's of one of those Toyota pickup engines, got the same result. The more I search, the more they look like old domestic transmission mounts or maybe old Ford V8 pickup truck engine mounts. I did find a Mitsubishi mount that looked similar.
Kind of hoping one of the sages of the group will jump in and say, "oh yeah, those are from a '73 International Scout!" (or something to that effect.) 
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell |
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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Hello,
What is that adaptor plate flywheel combo please? is that still available somewhere?
Greg
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Neil, have you fully committed to the Audi 5000 mounts? I ask because I've found that it's much easier to use a center top/bottom post type mount like the Passat/A4 1.8t hydraulic mounts, and they have a smaller footprint which would be less likely to interfere in the manner in which we see in your pic. Just a thought.
|
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 19073
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| The square mounts above remind me of vw rabbit scirocco rear trans mount. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12177
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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I'm not sure I like how short those mounting arms are, as I imagine they're not much help with reducing rocking motions. I prefer to locate the arms further up the block with a wider spread to isolate motion and vibration. You're going to have a hard time fitting any other type of mount with that tight of a spacing from the arms to the crossbar.
To answer the question about my adapter/flywheel combo; they're a Kennedy kit. I would recommend getting the FAS billet adapter, as opposed to the cast Kennedy unit.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10518
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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| joetiger wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
In your first image, at the bottom steel plate bonded to bottom of rubber, is that ear touching the bracket mounted to engine?
I googled "2366 engine mount" and got some Toyota hits. 22R and t100 but thats just a total guess.
Neil. |
Thanks Neil, I just noticed that myself...I will check them after work. Both of them appear to be very close if not touching. Metal on metal would certainly create vibrations!
2366 represents the CC's of one of those Toyota pickup engines, got the same result. The more I search, the more they look like old domestic transmission mounts or maybe old Ford V8 pickup truck engine mounts. I did find a Mitsubishi mount that looked similar.
|
You're welcome. I'm amazed at what I see when I look later at images I've taken of things I'm working on.
Ha. Ok. Engine displacement. I can see that.
The metal to metal, even a small amount, creates a bunch of noise. BTDT with flipping my WBX tranny mount.
Good luck on ID'ing that mount. Looks like Mark and Casey are on it.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5274
Location: denver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: 50 degree I-4 install hydraulic engine mounts |
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The top picture is a bit misleading; there's about 3/8 inch of clearance between the rubber-coated steel bottom piece and the block bracket. However, looking at the bottom picture (passenger side,) that lower piece is touching the block bracket. That's obviously a problem that I need to solve.
The mounts are very similar to Scirocco/Rabbit trans mounts, but the bolts are different. They're also somewhat similar to Miata mounts but again the bolts are offset whereas they appear to be straight through on mine.
Does anybody make a 15 degree carrier bar that would incorporate hydraulic mounts as well as exhaust mounting? That's my silver bullet but unfortunately I can't do it myself.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell |
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