Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Time to play NAME THAT WIRE!
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

I've got an 86 2wd Weekender that had smoke pouring from the top of the instrument cluster the other day. I've found the melt-y bits but I need help identifying what these wires power so I can make sure I fix the problem correct. I'm hoping you guys can help me.

In this shot I've got the instrument cluster out and the steering wheel removed
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is another angle that shows the burnt wiring
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a close up of the wires I'm trying to identify
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's a shot of the culprit going into the fuse panel under the dash
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Please help me figure out what this is. You are all my heroes. Thanks!
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8894
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

That looks like the bundle that comes/goes to under the driver seat.
Slide the seat forward and look closely under there.


Are you storing metal objects under there?
Is something going on with the the relay under there?


Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tobias Duncan
Samba Member


Joined: January 15, 2013
Posts: 1200
Location: Taos NM
Tobias Duncan is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

^^^^^^ This guy
is crazy good at this stuff, pay attention and give him all the info he asks for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

Amazing work. Indeed I believe I understand what happened.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So normally I have an aux battery but its nearing the end of its life and I pulled it so I could better test and care for it. Well, I thought I had secured the cables and was safe. It looks to me like my positive wire could have hit the metal on the seat and run current through it. That little guy must have been the path of least resistance. It's pretty amazing something way worse didn't happen really.

So if you were me, what step would you take next to right this wrong?

Thanks again for the suggestion. No telling how long it would have taken me to link the two and realized the problem was right under my ass the entire time.
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8894
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

I would make careful notes of how things are connected and then remove the Westy aux battery harness. Once out I would split open the loom cover and see if any wires can be reused.

I'm curious what vintage 86 you have. Can you tell me the last 8 digits of the vin number, changing the last couple to xx ?

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16144
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

Those looms need to be cut open and every wire in them inspected.

Fires are not fun.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

The last 8 digits are: GH0376XX. Its a Wolfsburg Westy Weekender.

UPDATE: I pulled the bundle and its totally shot. I'm going to completely replace it and the relay under the seat. I'm thinking I'll reuse the connectors since they appear in decent shape and will be a lot harder to find replacements for. Now to source replacement wire. I'm hoping I can find the right colors to avoid future headaches. Anybody have a good source for replacement wire?
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

I'm having trouble making sure I'm using the correct gauge wire. The ebrake sensor wire is fine (gray/green) so I'm reusing it. The gray, gray/red, and blue all look to be 18 gauge based on measured diameter and strand count.

The thing that is stumping me is the red/black and the solid red. Red/black has 32 strands and measures at 16 but that's more stands than is typical in 16 gauge. The red measures at 12 but it has 36 strands and that does make sense either. I don't know if I'm doing the right though so I'm hoping you guys can help.

Also I can't for the life of me figure out where this stuff is in the Bentley. Sorry for my noobery. Thanks again for all the help.
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8894
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

That is partly why I asked about the vin# info. In any case it seems like the factory used a fridge relay harness on your early 86 instead of the aux battery harness my various 86/87 Wolfys had/have.

86 fridge relay wiring on page 97.33b
86 aux battery relay wiring om page 97.34a

Mark

vanagonforever wrote:
.....
Also I can't for the life of me figure out where this stuff is in the Bentley. Sorry for my noobery. Thanks again for all the help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45043

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

You can get the DIN wire gauge from the schematics and then use a chart like this to find the comparable AWG size

https://www.kayjayco.com/techAmpsNSAE2Metric.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 9472
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
Vanagon Nut is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

vanagonforever wrote:


UPDATE: I pulled the bundle and its totally shot. I'm going to completely replace it and the relay under the seat. I'm thinking I'll reuse the connectors since they appear in decent shape and will be a lot harder to find replacements for.


I have re used those type of factory connectors before. The ones I dealt with were most likely solid copper so I wasn't concerned about prying them open then re crimping. (metal fatigue) I also soldered the wires. Of course I cleaned them well beforehand. Of note, they were on fused circuits. Not all the circuits on a Vanagon are fused from the factory. Not saying re using and/or soldering on these terminals is the right way to do this but something to consider? For wires into the relay block, you might find that a generic relay block + wires might do. Those locking terminals aren't easy to find at a FLAPS. IF the new wire gauges on block match or are larger, just connect them to your new wires.

My "VW" parts place stocks various barrel type terminals. If you can find a European parts place, they might have stock of what you want? A proper crimp tool is another thing.......

I don't know the logistics of R&R for this portion of harness but if you assembled the wires, loomed them, then had new terminals crimped on by an electrical specialty shop, could the harness still be reinstalled?

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

My current plan is to use one step up awg wire from the metric wire (just learned metric wire was a thing today) and I'm reusing the connectors by using splice connectors and a proper crimping tool with the exception of the 12 gauge wire that completely melted the casing off it. That is mostly to ensure that I've got proper wire colors at the connections so I don't get confused as much as it is to not have to source new connectors. Then thinking I'll just wrap the whole thing in electrical tape, do a test run to make sure nothing is getting hot, and then route the new wiring properly. I'm going to replace the relay under the drivers seat as well.

I'll be keeping a very close eye on all this. That should get me back on the road. Then I'm going to see if I can find a replacement for the entire harness from a junkyard or eBay. When I find one I'll probably ditch my mess for the old good stuff.

Anything else to look out for?
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 9472
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
Vanagon Nut is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to play NAME THAT WIRE! Reply with quote

Something I tend to forget; stagger wire repair joins.

Some electrical tape is better than others. IMO, its always worth using the better stuff. Split loom wire cover is generally always a good idea. As a side note, the cover with blue stripe has a higher temp rating, I recently learned. WD40 makes a decent lube if pulling covered wire through grommet. Even if used on the corrugated split loom stuff. If you use cable straps, invest in a flush cutter. The stub left behind by side cutters is devilishly sharp. Makes a spelunking adventure under the dash much more interesting. Twisted Evil

Neil.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB