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73ThugBug Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Hey guys, need some help figuring out a spark issue with my ‘73 beetle. It randomly stoped making a spark after the ignition coil. I took the distributor apart to replace the points and noticed there was only one spring instead of 2. (Image attached) I know that other distributors have two springs here and wanted to make sure that there is one missing. Could this be the cause of the lack of spark? I will not finish replacing the points until tonight so I won’t know if that is the solution or not for a little while. So, could that missing spring cause issues or is it okay to run the car without it? (I could not find the spring anywhere). If I need a new one, where is the best place to buy one? Thank you in advance.
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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if it's an 009 (looks like it), it only uses one spring.
and you don't have to take the distributor apart that far just to change the points. _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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73ThugBug Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Yes, it’s a 009.
And yes, you don’t have to take it apart to change the points, I just wanted to clean it out because it never has been and had a slight build up of dirt inside. |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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make sure the advance mechanism is working too.
but to answer your question, a missing spring isn't going to cause a no-spark situation. _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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David_nc_72std Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015 Posts: 841 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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73ThugBug wrote: |
It randomly stoped making a spark after the ignition coil. |
Do you mean that there is still spark if you check it at the ignition coil, but the spark isn't making it through the distributor cap to the spark plug wires? If the wires are good, sounds like maybe arching to ground inside the distributor cap, or something wrong with the cap or rotor.
The missing spring wouldn't keep the ignition from working, it would just affect the advance mechanism. You would still get a spark, but the timing would be off. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12865 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Check to see if the little graphite button is still in the cap, I've also seen the rotors ground to the distributor shaft. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9978 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
Check to see if the little graphite button is still in the cap, I've also seen the rotors ground to the distributor shaft. |
^^^^
The spark burns right through the rotor! You will see black carbon tracks inside the rotor where it sits on the shaft. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Ive never removed a points plate with the distributor still installed. Might as well pull it out and rebuild it. You're halfway there. |
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73ThugBug Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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I cleaned out the iniside of the distributor, like I said it had a lot of debris. I replaced the points and that solved the spark issue.
But now when I turn the key, it turns over but with no spark until I let off on the key to its regular running position. After a few tries it will start, and run but it only starts when I let off of the key like I said before.
From my research I found that this is likely a failure in either the starter taking all the battery’s power, or the connections in the key housing are bad, any thoughts? |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31397 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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73ThugBug wrote: |
But now when I turn the key, it turns over but with no spark until I let off on the key to its regular running position. After a few tries it will start, and run but it only starts when I let off of the key like I said before.
From my research I found that this is likely a failure in either the starter taking all the battery’s power, or the connections in the key housing are bad, any thoughts? |
I'd say it's a bad electrical part of the ignition switch. There are different contacts to the ignition circuit when in the START position and the RUN position.
Here's how to test: use your 12 volt test light (or even DC voltmeter), connect to coil terminal #15 (the positive terminal) and to ground. Have buddy, kid, friend with benefits hold key in start position and cranking, see if you get voltage at that test light. Voltmeter may actually be better if you can get an actual reading there. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bobinphx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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or as a test, you can run a wire from the positive of the battery directly to the positive connection of the coil. Then run around to the drivers seat and try to start the motor with the key. If it starts right up, you know you have an issue with power to the coil on startup. In that case it is most likely the ignition switch.
If it still does not start right, you may have an issue with the battery or the something else like points or fuel cutoff or???
Dont leave the coil attached to the battery directly for too long with the engine not running. It could overheat the coil. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15990 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Follow Cusser’s instructions. Take a voltage reading at the ignition coil #15 terminal WHILE the engine is cranking.
Low voltage means the wiring resistance is too high or the battery is too weak. When the starter is drawing current there is not enough left to make it to the ignition coil so it stops firing. If you test while the engine is NOT cranking all is well.
If you find NO voltage at the #15 while the starter is cranking it could be two things....
1) The ignition switch electrical connections inside the ignition switch are bad. You need to rebuild or replace your ignition switch (electrical)
2) The wrong circuit has been wired to the ignition coil. There are two OUTPUT wires from the ignition switch: black #15 and black/yellow #X. The #15 circuit normally powers the ignition coil. But there have been cases where the PO will incorrectly wire the #X circuit to the ignition coil. The #X circuit is specifically designed to NOT have power when the key is in the START position. This circuits powers the headlights and wipers which are not critical for starting the engine. But the ignition coil MUST be powered from the #15 circuit which has 12v in both the ON/RUN position and the START position. Sometimes you will find the PO using the #X as an alternate when the #15 circuit fails. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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73ThugBug Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2018 Posts: 10 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Missing distributor spring causes no spark? |
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Thank y’all for the help. After some research I deduced that the issue is coming from the ignition switch and will be replaced. |
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