Adjust rear camber and toe without effecting ride height?

[Eskamobob1]

Hey guys,

So I am trying to figure out about lowering the rear of my beetle and am having some trouble with how to do it/if I even should do it. I had initially just planned to just use drop plates to maintain proper preload and move on with my life. However, I recently got an entire early 944NA suspension and found out that the camber adjuster on the 944 spring plates also effects ride height slightly due to the nature of semi-trailing arm. That got me thinking, is there any way to maintain camber/toe adjustability on the rear while maintaining a specific height? (buying more/aftermarket parts is totally fine)

I was planning on lowering specifically for the ride benefits of the lower CG, but it seems like this may actually be removed by the decent negative camber induced on the read wheels (plan was 2.5" to match the drop spindles I was planning for the front). Does anyone know what kind of camber a 2.5" lower will induce?

Thanks for your time,
-esk
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'74 - front disks/lots more work to do

[scrivyscriv]

[theKbStockpiler]

Camber changes with height and you can change the toe in relationship to this.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[modok]

You can change the camber if you want but the suspension travel is more difficult to change. You only have 5-6 inches total travel.
I hear you guys taking about 2.5 drops all the time but I don't really get the point. IMO drop it a little OR on the stops, I would not bother having only 1 or 1.5 inches of up travel. If you want good performance you won't be changing ONE thing. Moderate drop, stronger springs, wider maybe even shorter tires.

[Eskamobob1]

[Chris333]

Swapping the trailing arms left and right gives you a little more correct camber.

[modok]

I think.....you just have to get IN there with a angle finder and a ruler and figure it out. It's not a huge job, one afternoon. That's how the off-road guys do it.

I got a set of "drop plates", and tried that out on my 1960, and found only 1/2" of practical addition suspension travel past the hard stop, which meant that "drop plates" are.... pointless and even detrimental, in that case.
I revealed this info quietly, and I thought it was very interesting nobody really noticed.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=567022

The guy pushing those drop plates had SUCH enthusiasm, I didn't want to discourage his efforts prematurely at the time. Maybe he'd figure it out any day now. But, didn't seem to, or didn't admit it.

Since YOU seem to have enthusiasm and seem sharp.....why don't you figure it out, and tell us what you find I don't know why nobody does that. It's KINDA complex, but fundamentally it's just basically a lever.

[theKbStockpiler]

I assumed that Drop Plates just offset the position of the wheel as compared to the torsion bar. How is the suspension travel altered?
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[modok]

Did you read it?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=567022

[mark tucker]

YES YOU CAN AND YES IT'S SOME WHAT EAZY TO DO.

[theKbStockpiler]

Okay I read the thread as painful as it was.

It seems that the DropPlates only keep the torsion spring in the same state as with a stock one with the stock ride height. It would be better in that respect anyways.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[cbeck]

My experience with aftermarket[3x3] trailing arms, sorry it is kinda long. The arms had only 2 spring plate holes, was not going to drill more until it was on a alignment rack. Stub axle center line kept moving above the spring plate center line [only 2 bolts. knew I needed more].When the center lines were off, the tops of the tires leaned at least 1" out past the bottom of the tire like a preloaded swing axle. When I drilled the other bolt holes, with the center lines lined up my camber went to zero. The guys in the off road forum explained that if the axle center line kept moving further down below the spring plate center line, the top of the tire would keep getting pulled further in the lower the center line of the axle went. Yes, it changes ride height, so reindex the torsion cars to get the height you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AMRpVCeBes
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[theKbStockpiler]

The pivot of the diagonal/trailing arms and the arms themselves sets what the camber/ride height is.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[dirtkeeper]

[modok]

[theKbStockpiler]

I made a simple model of the IRS with just a bent up piece of wire which takes all of the myths out of it.

So what do the drop plate sellers advice to do with the bump stop? It just looks like snake oil.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[Chris333]

I don't know if this is any help.

I ground away the upper stops and kept my (double) spring plates whole:

Cut the bump stop off:

Later on I flipped the arms and notched them for bags:

I was able to re-mount the lower shock mounts back to the arms and came up with this for the uppers:

[Chris333]

I read elsewhere that flipping the arms gives you 2 degrees less camber.

[theKbStockpiler]

Has anyone tried to flip Reduction Boxes?
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.