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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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not really like the johnson kit but my version without needing to blow apart the axle tubes. hiems are 5/8 chromolly rated at 31000 psi, uppers adjust toe and lowers can adjust layback of the box to a certain extent. so far pretty happy with it, has neither raise nor squat now and i can actually get it sideways. no wheel hop at all!
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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Suh-weet! Did you reinforce the tube to the transmission or does the upper link protect the tubes?
Good job
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3996
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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Are you still using torsion bars? I think you are going to have problems with that Rod end on the spring plate, they are not really rated for that kind of load, you have all your suspended load on a single 5/8" or 3/4" bolt.
It looks like a great design on paper but I think in the end that rod end is going to be your weak point. If you had coil overs I think it would be OK.
Casey
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| heywebonya wrote: |
Suh-weet! Did you reinforce the tube to the transmission or does the upper link protect the tubes?
Good job |
what tube, the axle tube? |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| earthquake wrote: |
Are you still using torsion bars? I think you are going to have problems with that Rod end on the spring plate, they are not really rated for that kind of load, you have all your suspended load on a single 5/8" or 3/4" bolt.
It looks like a great design on paper but I think in the end that rod end is going to be your weak point. If you had coil overs I think it would be OK.
Casey |
i agree it is probably the week point, but, i dont see the difference if it was on a coilover vs the torsion bar. either way u have something exerting force down on the heim, maybe if the coil was mounted out past the hiem to the box? but if u consider an a arm design the lower arm typically has the coil spring pushing down on it , so whats the difference...?
time will tell for sure! |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| richardcraineum wrote: |
| earthquake wrote: |
Are you still using torsion bars? I think you are going to have problems with that Rod end on the spring plate, they are not really rated for that kind of load, you have all your suspended load on a single 5/8" or 3/4" bolt.
It looks like a great design on paper but I think in the end that rod end is going to be your weak point. If you had coil overs I think it would be OK.
Casey |
i agree it is probably the week point, but, i dont see the difference if it was on a coilover vs the torsion bar. either way u have something exerting force down on the heim, maybe if the coil was mounted out past the hiem to the box? but if u consider an a arm design the lower arm typically has the coil spring pushing down on it , so whats the difference...?
time will tell for sure! |
The difference is that a coilover is acting directly on the trailing arm, thus effectively utilizing the spring plate only as a hinge once the torsion bars are removed. However, you're arrangement is still using the spring plate as a dynamically loaded suspension element, and that is applying extreme bending loads on that heim shank, which it was not at all designed for. Heims/rod ends are designed largely for tension and compression. Yours are at the long end of the "moment arm," subjecting them to bending. |
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veeweeman
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Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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By the mud sling marks on the body it looks like he's already put it through a good test....this setup isn't any different than you would see on a performance street rod rear end that has asphalt grip on those ladder bars...the only thing that I see that I would do?...is add a lateral stiffener on the lower bar....just behind the lower shock mount on the lower bar I would add another bar pointing towards the nose cone, basically the lower bar would look like a A frame. ..the setup you have now looks great but I don't see anything from causing the axles from pounding out the tranny, side to side movement. ...especially if you're doing side drifting or hard cornering. ...a lower A frame would prevent the axles from pounding on the trans.
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
| By the mud sling marks on the body it looks like he's already put it through a good test....this setup isn't any different than you would see on a performance street rod rear end that has asphalt grip on those ladder bars...the only thing that I see that I would do?...is add a lateral stiffener on the lower bar....just behind the lower shock mount on the lower bar I would add another bar pointing towards the nose cone, basically the lower bar would look like a A frame. ..the setup you have now looks great but I don't see anything from causing the axles from pounding out the tranny, side to side movement. ...especially if you're doing side drifting or hard cornering. ...a lower A frame would prevent the axles from pounding on the trans. |
And the good thing is, the heim is threaded nearly all the way in, with the nut close to the yoke portion, maximizing stiffness of the heim shank. It'll be a good test case, that's for sure. |
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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I am guessing this is not a swing axle RGB set up; is this correct?
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heywebonya
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Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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I am guessing this is not a swing axle RGB set up; is this correct?
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| richardcraineum wrote: |
| earthquake wrote: |
Are you still using torsion bars? I think you are going to have problems with that Rod end on the spring plate, they are not really rated for that kind of load, you have all your suspended load on a single 5/8" or 3/4" bolt.
It looks like a great design on paper but I think in the end that rod end is going to be your weak point. If you had coil overs I think it would be OK.
Casey |
i agree it is probably the week point, but, i dont see the difference if it was on a coilover vs the torsion bar. either way u have something exerting force down on the heim, maybe if the coil was mounted out past the hiem to the box? but if u consider an a arm design the lower arm typically has the coil spring pushing down on it , so whats the difference...?
time will tell for sure! |
The difference is that a coilover is acting directly on the trailing arm, thus effectively
utilizing the spring plate only as a hinge once the torsion bars are removed.
However, you're arrangement is still using the spring plate as a dynamically loaded suspension element, and that is applying extreme bending loads on that heim shank, which it was not at all designed for. Heims/rod ends are designed largely for tension and compression. Yours are at the long end of the "moment arm," subjecting them to bending. |
yeh, i was saying i could see the load on the heim being different if the assembly was sprung from somewhere on the 'axle'. BUT , consider how an A arm is sprung, also how rear suspension on trophy trucks are sprung. they are mounted on the trailing arm which puts force to the axle. also the original johnson kit put all this force directly on the axle tube, metal to metal and ive read posts where ppl said there was minimal wear. i also figure that each heim is rated at 31,000 psi, over 15 times the weight of the entire bug. not saying i wont have troubles but i did consider all this and this was my best solution for a mild trail / street buggy. so keep ur fingers crossed for me cause it sure rides nice now! |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
| By the mud sling marks on the body it looks like he's already put it through a good test....this setup isn't any different than you would see on a performance street rod rear end that has asphalt grip on those ladder bars...the only thing that I see that I would do?...is add a lateral stiffener on the lower bar....just behind the lower shock mount on the lower bar I would add another bar pointing towards the nose cone, basically the lower bar would look like a A frame. ..the setup you have now looks great but I don't see anything from causing the axles from pounding out the tranny, side to side movement. ...especially if you're doing side drifting or hard cornering. ...a lower A frame would prevent the axles from pounding on the trans. |
i did think about that but from all the rgb threads ive didnt seem like they had much issues with that. i had a mid engine rail with a s/a and it had a ring that bolted around the trans and lateral bars from that ring to the hubs, it was a pretty sweet design |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| heywebonya wrote: |
| I am guessing this is not a swing axle RGB set up; is this correct? |
yes this is a swing axle rgb |
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B Ramsey
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 479
Location: Mohave Valley, AZ.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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heres an idea, just throwing it out there. what if reduction box was mounted to springplate in traditional manner, and rigid "traction bar" was mounted under it, that extended forward. at the forward end, have it mounted with a shackle like a leaf spring. that would control axle wrap no? ive seen this on 4x4's many times.
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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| B Ramsey wrote: |
| heres an idea, just throwing it out there. what if reduction box was mounted to springplate in traditional manner, and rigid "traction bar" was mounted under it, that extended forward. at the forward end, have it mounted with a shackle like a leaf spring. that would control axle wrap no? ive seen this on 4x4's many times. |
i kinda tried this the first time around. i mounted the same lower drag link to the bottom of the rgb and the other , front end i mounted to a threaded bung welded to the spring plate, centered in the end of the torsion bar. that way both the springplate and drag link traveled together in the same arch, i thought maybe it would eliminate "axle wrap". i dont think it did a damn thing as the wheel hop would beat u to death.
after this build and seeing the difference in how it handles, im thoroughly convinced all the wheel hop comes from the instant center that the rbg makes. where the instant center is determines how much squat or anti squat the car has. google it, its really interesting and i can say seeing is believing |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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Just bumping my own thread because i was rummaging through the offroad gallery and came across the pics.
1. Wow, i was really nice early on.
2. 7 years later and the set up is holding. Im not going to say ive put it through any serious off roading because i havent, not what id consider serious anyhow. Hasn’t gotten any air or anything like that. Been down some trails, fair amount of “gittin it” down gravel & dirt roads, often sideways, and grabbing gears on the asphalt. Which is probably why i have to have the transmission rebuilt now…
Seems the ring gear wanted to exit through the side plate. Haha!
When i get the trans out, I’ll check out the heims and report back.
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4022
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 8:52 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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Cool setup. Seems more simple than the johnson no hop kit
Do you have any more pics of your mods to the springplate cover and the attachment to the rgb? |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2624
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 10:15 am Post subject: Re: my homemade "johnson" no hop |
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Thanks. The springplate cover mods? I assume you mean when I ran a bar from the RGB box to the torsion plate where it goes over the torsion bar?
If so, no i dont think i do. You can see the bolt in the center of it though.
I think what i did was welded a 1/2” “washer” to the end that was threaded to accept a 1/2” bolt. Then i just ran a rod from there to the RGB box. It didnt do much, probably help prevent torsion spring plate from wrapping up & flexing though , i would guess. But didnt change the rear end raising at all
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An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
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