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herbie1200
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Rome - Italy
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 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks jzjames, I'm going to do this job during Christmas holidays. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2860
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| monsonb wrote: |
Digging up an old thread. 
I recently discovered I had a hard start relay on my '62 Beetle (stock 6 volt), and while researching the relay I found this information. I was curious if a relay would make my meager horn more audible in traffic, so I bought one from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DK899DI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (It was about $11.00, shipping included, week ago...)
I used the wiring diagram provided by glutamodo, and now my horn is much louder and at high pitch. Thanks!
I mounted the relay right behind the horn, and I plan to seal it up with some silicon soon.
[/img] |
This looks great. Now, could someone post a clear diagram of all the connections, please? There's extra wires there that my non-electrician eyes can't figure out. |
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rcroane 
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2015
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| monsonb wrote: |
Digging up an old thread.
I recently discovered I had a hard start relay on my '62 Beetle (stock 6 volt), and while researching the relay I found this information. I was curious if a relay would make my meager horn more audible in traffic, so I bought one from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DK899DI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (It was about $11.00, shipping included, week ago...)
I used the wiring diagram provided by glutamodo, and now my horn is much louder and at high pitch. Thanks!
I mounted the relay right behind the horn, and I plan to seal it up with some silicon soon.
[/img] |
This looks great. Now, could someone post a clear diagram of all the connections, please? There's extra wires there that my non-electrician eyes can't figure out. |
Reviving this old thread. I want to copy this set up, but I'm struggling to understand Andy's diagram and how it translates to this photo. Anybody willing to provide step by step instructions? Or pictures that would give me a better idea of the connections? For example, I can't see the red wire from the harness that originally connects to the horn. How do I connect that wire? And it looks like there is a double spade connector on the horn for the jumper wire from the 85 terminal on the relay and the striped wire from the harness? And I'm really confused on the 86 terminal connection? Lastly, it looks like the relay is grounded to the horn bracket?
Thanks for any help!
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'65 Sunroof Bug |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26530
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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It's not really that hard - the way I have it set up, the relay provides the main ground path for the horn. The relay is energized/powered by the same wire that the horn itself its juice from, and then the connections up the column tube, horn ring and wire going down to the steering coupler disc, only provide the small amount of flow to ground that, when the horn button is pressed, triggers that relay.
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Andy T.
"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!" |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2015
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| It's not really that hard - the way I have it set up, the relay provides the main ground path for the horn. The relay is energized/powered by the same wire that the horn itself its juice from, and then the connections up the column tube, horn ring and wire going down to the steering coupler disc, only provide the small amount of flow to ground that, when the horn button is pressed, triggers that relay. |
Thanks, Andy. I ended up getting it done. I'm probably going to invert the relay so I can shorten the wires. In the meantime, horn works great...even with the lights on!
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'65 Sunroof Bug |
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1964SunRoof
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: DE, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Wow! This is such a great idea! Why didn't I think of it! I use a hard-start relay for my starter. I have considered using a relay to get enough power to my coil. Someone else said they used relays for their headlights. And now here we have using a relay for the horn. All these former 6-volters sold out and went to 12 volts because of too-dim headlights and trouble starting, etc., but now we see that YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO OVER TO 12 VOLT. JUST USE RELAYS FOR EVERYTHING!! HAHAHAHA!!  |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2015
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| 1964SunRoof wrote: |
| Wow! This is such a great idea! Why didn't I think of it! I use a hard-start relay for my starter. I have considered using a relay to get enough power to my coil. Someone else said they used relays for their headlights. And now here we have using a relay for the horn. All these former 6-volters sold out and went to 12 volts because of too-dim headlights and trouble starting, etc., but now we see that YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO OVER TO 12 VOLT. JUST USE RELAYS FOR EVERYTHING!! HAHAHAHA!! |
Exactly....just need to give our 6v systems a little boost with modern technology. My next step is to de-activate my floor dimmer switch and install the '66 type dimmer/flasher on the headlight stalk. It runs through a relay that should improve headlight performance.
If you haven't done so already, I also highly recommend an electronic turn signal flasher (WW sells one for $15). Much more reliable than the stock unit.
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'65 Sunroof Bug |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26530
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| 1964SunRoof wrote: |
| Wow! This is such a great idea! Why didn't I think of it! I use a hard-start relay for my starter. I have considered using a relay to get enough power to my coil. Someone else said they used relays for their headlights. And now here we have using a relay for the horn. All these former 6-volters sold out and went to 12 volts because of too-dim headlights and trouble starting, etc., but now we see that YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO OVER TO 12 VOLT. JUST USE RELAYS FOR EVERYTHING!! HAHAHAHA!! |
Dude, I would rather not have had to resort to using a relay, it was born of necessity. The connection on the column tube on my 62 just won't pass the horn current reliably, but will do so enough for the small current to trigger a relay. (and on my 62 I don't have any other such relays!)
And as I said before, it's not like VW themselves were not using horn relays at that time on Ghia models!
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Andy T.
"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!" |
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1964SunRoof
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: DE, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| I am working on my horn right now too. Does anybody know if either of the 2 relays referenced in this thread are sealed? Because if they are to be mounted right next to the horn, then they are going to get dirtied up. I actually discovered that I have 2 relays I bought LONG time ago, they are made by POTTER & BRUMFIELD and what was really delightful to discover was, they are 6volts! They are DPDT (double pull, double throw) so they are more complex than I need, but I could use them. Trouble is, the thing is all out in the open, with no shielding at all. But I suppose I could get some kind of little box to keep it inside of. |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2015
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| 1964SunRoof wrote: |
| I am working on my horn right now too. Does anybody know if either of the 2 relays referenced in this thread are sealed? Because if they are to be mounted right next to the horn, then they are going to get dirtied up. I actually discovered that I have 2 relays I bought LONG time ago, they are made by POTTER & BRUMFIELD and what was really delightful to discover was, they are 6volts! They are DPDT (double pull, double throw) so they are more complex than I need, but I could use them. Trouble is, the thing is all out in the open, with no shielding at all. But I suppose I could get some kind of little box to keep it inside of. |
They WW relay is not sealed. I've read where others have sealed the edges of the relay with silicone.
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'65 Sunroof Bug |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26530
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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regarding sealed relays, I thought I had mentioned this earlier in this thread but a quick look and I'm not seeing it. I did mention that I caulked the bottom of the relay, but not where I got that "idea" from. In the first generation of VW water-cooled cars, cars with factory accessory air conditioning, would have an extra relay on the cooling fan by the radiator... exposed to whatever water makes its way past the front grille or generally splashed around the engine compartment. I remember finding examples of that relay where the bottom was packed with sealant... (I assume this was a VW thing)
So, I figured, if it worked for VW there, it should work if I did it myself for a relay exposed to the elements under the front fender of my 62.
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Andy T.
"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!" |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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My 1965 6v horn hasn't been working for years. Where is the relay located?
| glutamodo wrote: |
Oh, I drew up a diagram of the horn relay but never posted it! If you are like me, and the horn contacts all work unloaded , but if you hook up the horn, it can't handle the higher current the horn draws, then this should work. It has for years for me. Well, on 12V it's easy enough, just get one of these kind of relays:
(They did make 6V versions but they are hard to find!)
Then you wire it up like this:
I caulked the bottom of mine to help make sure it was sealed, then used that mounting tab to zip-tie it to the wiring going to the headlight bucket.
I was looking at mine and trying to figure out why it looked like the wires were going to the wrong terminals on the relay. So I unwrapped the electrical tape I had on all the wires - looking more closely I guess I had some oddball relay with the terminals in alternate locations. It's been years since I set this up, and now that I've looked at it, I think I'm going to redo those splices, clean everything up, do some heat shrink. But here's a photo of it all "bare"
-Andy
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26530
Location: Douglas, WY
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Thanks!!!!
| glutamodo wrote: |
| Well, stock, there is no relay. That's why I added one as shown. You just have to be sure you protect it from water damage under the car. |
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33068
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| vwgirl1961a wrote: |
| My 1965 6v horn hasn't been working for years. |
A horn is a VERY IMPORTANT safety feature. Of course Arizona does ZERO safety testing on vehicles, so the owner must keep on top of horn, headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.
First thing is to test the horn itself; on my newer 12 volt VWs I've had to replace the horns. Second would be to check the horn contacts on the steering wheel, the circuit grounds through that. Third would be to go under the VW to ensure that the wire is connected to the steering column. Fourth would be to make sure connections are clean and tight.
Fifth would be to add a relay.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4201
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Cusser! I'll take a look at the wire under the car this weekend
| Cusser wrote: |
| vwgirl1961a wrote: |
| My 1965 6v horn hasn't been working for years. |
A horn is a VERY IMPORTANT safety feature. Of course Arizona does ZERO safety testing on vehicles, so the owner must keep on top of horn, headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.
First thing is to test the horn itself; on my newer 12 volt VWs I've had to replace the horns. Second would be to check the horn contacts on the steering wheel, the circuit grounds through that. Third would be to go under the VW to ensure that the wire is connected to the steering column. Fourth would be to make sure connections are clean and tight.
Fifth would be to add a relay. |
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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vwgirl1961a
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 466
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Horn |
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Before I take my car to my mechanic I will take a look under it over the weekend for any loose or bad connection. I was googling and might have an idea what I am looking for
| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
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"Age doesn't really matter unless you are a cheese". |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10324
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
Chris- It is because of your comment in the other thread that I had an "Oh yeah, the contacts" moment, readjusted my horn- and once again my horn beeps! Thank you, Bradford
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4201
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Horn |
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| hitest wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
I don't know about new horns but the original horns had a contact adjustment screw that could be adjusted to make the horn function correctly. If a 6v horn won't work with the factory wiring then this is the first thing to check.
I suggested this about a month ago in another thread that was full of "check all of your connections" and a bunch of other time consuming things, that weren't necessarily bad advice but were not getting to the root of the problem. He adjusted the contacts and it fixed the problem. The contacts wear over time and when out of adjustment will result in a weak or dead horn.
If you are going to put a relay on the horn then at least put it inside the trunk. Most of these relays people are using are not sealed and that spot behind the horn gets drenched when you are driving in the rain. Much more than a relay in the engine compartment of a water cooled car. |
Chris- It is because of your comment in the other thread that I had an "Oh yeah, the contacts" moment, readjusted my horn- and once again my horn beeps! Thank you, Bradford |
Glad to have helped. People are so quick to add band aid fixes instead of fixing the actual problem. The horns in these cars worked fine when new and never required a relay to function. In the case of a horn with the contacts slightly out of adjustment a relay will give a little more juice to the horn and can make it work again but eventually will stop working or be less reliable because of the continued wear of the contacts and of the added parts and complexity.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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