Need a new starter

[kirk knighton]

Can't find the exact 412 starter with manual transmission, can a substitute be used? Like maybe from a late model Bus?

[raygreenwood]

Yes. The 004 transmission in the parts book uses a starter part # of
311 911 023 D. It also states that its MARKED as 311 911 023 B.

According to Cip1....it fits beetle manual trans 67-79, ghia 67-74 and bus 67-75.

https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D311%2D911%2D023%2DD

I have no idea of the quality of the Cip1 part but for about the same price, AutohausAZ has a rebuilt original Bosch. The Autohaus listing also states fastback, squareback and 411/412.

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/13571614-SR17X?utm_s...zkQAvD_BwE

Ray

[Hawker]

The starter in the autohaus link is actually for an automatic as it is self supporting and doesn’t require a bushing in the transmission to support the outer part of the armature/shaft.

I had a 311 911 023 starter fitted in my 65 bus. Never had a problem with it.

BR,

Rob

[raygreenwood]

[vwrenault]

The starter in my car is a sr17x works great but if you don't have a core gets expensive

[ClassicCamper]

Hey Kirk -- Just checking in to see if there was any update as to how your starter is working.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[kirk knighton]

Hi, thanks.

Even when ice cold it's just a slow moment and then it whirs to life. And then starts fine the rest of the day.

Very high compression engine, 20W-50 oil, cold weather.
Everything else checks out as fully functional; guess I can live with it!

[raygreenwood]

Wait.....you never mentioned in the last thread....."very high compression". What do you mean by very high compression? What are the numbers?

Also.....did you run ALL of the checks I went through in that thread?

The scenarios I listed....are NOT speculative.

I have had all of those scenarios cause this EXACT symptom you are having ....multiple times in multiple cars over my 40 years of wkrking kn and driving 411 and 412 cars.

I would NOT "live" with it.
Find it and solve it.....for the simple fact that if it is a high resistance connection point....which is the MOST common failure that causes this symptom.....its a great way to end up with a charred harness in the chassis or a fire.....because the point of high resistance whether its ground or positive.....gets HOT while this is happening.

Also a last couple of checking points:

1. As classic camper noted...sure....it could be starter engagement being tight when stone cold and after one start is fine for the day. Get underneath and loosen both starter bolts....about 1/2 turn. Not enough to create gap or make it rattle....but enough that its torque can twist itself slightly for alignment. Then try to start it. If it improves or fixes it....yes...the starter is somehow in a bind.

2nd day.....with starter bolts tight.....run a good heavy ground wire from the starter housing down to a clean chassis ground point. If it fixes or improves it....you have a high resistance ground system.

To be thorough you should wait to a 3rd morning and do this with a positive cable as well attached to the positive lug.

2. High compression makes a difference....especially when added with excessive ignition advance. What are your timing settings and what kind of advance unit do you have?

So.....first thing in the morning before starting....pop the distributor cap and jiggle the points breaker plate and rotor. Make sure that the springs and plate are not sticking. Make sure that the distributor advance mechanism is coming back to proper at rest point.

If not .....the first start of the day could be giving you excessive ignition advance.

Ignition advance....is in effect....."artificial compression". As a secondary test you may want to try disconnecting and plugging the vacuum advance line from the vacuum can.

There are and were several set ups that used a thermostatic vacuum breaker in the ignition advance line to prevent the vacuum advance from operating in cold weather during starting.

Ray