class 11 look folks, spring plate preload

[joemama]

so, we class 11 look folks have a unique challenge in setting up spring plates.
We play with notches, torsion bars, and preload, to gives us lift. This can result in tires hitting/rubbing the fenders, exceeding cv angles, clanging against lower stop. Presently, I set my spring plates (they are dual), at what turns out to be 26 degrees, following Jeff Hibbards recommendations, and actually a little less than he recommends. 26 degrees, with stock torsion bars, keeps my tires away from the fenders, but results in camber issues, even with IRS, as well as very annoying clanking against the lower stops.

My specs are stock torsions, 215/75/15 tires on Mangel 5 1/2 x 15 wheels, a small 3/16" notch, bus cv's. The front end has 3" lifted spindles, no cut and turn. This last weekend, I redid the preload on one side, and tried to keep the spring plates (notch), about 1/2" from resting on the stop. I tested this by using a floor jack to push up on the end of the spring plate, after bolting on the spring plate retainer cap, but before bolting on the trailing arm. My spring plate angle ended up at 20 degrees. Once everything was bolted on, the clearance between the spring plate and lower stop grew to about 3/4", and I know my tires are constantly going to hit the fenders. Obviously 20 degrees isnt going to cut it, so maybe 23 degrees, but this will probably result in clanking.
Right now, I think my options are:
1. Live with the clanking - I dont want to - I told my wife this would be a nice civilized ride
2. enlarge the notch substantially, and limit my droop with straps, or?
3. consider using those expensive atomworks lifted spring plates
I am looking for suggestions. Whats worked for you?

[TDCTDI]

I went with roughly 1/2” notch on inner plate, I went with slightly longer shocks but removing a bit out of the lower shock mount to mimic the Thing trailing arms would be fine too. I run 944 axles & CVs. After fighting re-indexing many times to to get it where I wanted it but still bottoming on jumps or aggressive articulation (or a large dip in the road with a passenger in the car.), I swapped in a pair of 29mm SAW torsion bars(pilfered from another project) that were adjusted perfectly just by positioning the spring plate so it touched the stop at full droop. No banging, no clanging, no bottoming, & no fighting or cussing or even a tool to compress the suspension to install the spring plates.

I am running General Grabber 205/75/15 up front & BFG KO2 215/75-15 in the rear. The KO2s have a harder tread compound which in combination with the stiffer rear torsion bars, make the rear a bit loose, especially after the roads have just gotten wet or the surface is loose. Coming off throttle in a corner WILL instigate oversteer/rotation, loads of fun if you are prepared for it. A quick counter steer & a bit of throttle settles it right in.


As far as your fender clearance issues, lose the aftermarket, widened steelies & put a set of stock wheels back on. The additional width & offset of your current wheels will never be remedied without wider fenders.
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[Double-Double]

Joemama, I am clearly not done with my class 11 looker yet, but I am extremely happy with my Atomwerk spring plates. I set my preload at the factory spec and did gain the 2-2.5" I specified to match my Thing front spindles. I know people on here don't recommend them for one reason or another, but I have nothing bad to say about them at all. To me they were worth the $200ish I paid, but then again he is local to me and I specified them unfinished to save on the costs. I am sure that you have seen my gallery and my chassis in my build log so I'll save you the details, but I do think it would be a good option for you.

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[mkparker]

I agree with the above statement on 5.5" Mangles. I tried a set on mine and didn't care for it at all. I switched to 4.5" Mangles and rubbing is minimal now. and I'm running 235/75/15s.

Thing beam/spindles no cut/turn. Type 4 CVs and dual springplates with a 1/2" notch. I do have the benefit of a center torsion adjuster, but my plan is to upgrade to fatter bars like TDCTDI.

EDIT: I also flipped my trailing arms side to side to loose a bit of camber.

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Pit Boy 6163 Spec Trophy Truck

[AZ-BUG]

Nice looking bug! Regardless of 26, 23, or 20 degrees, when you are off-roading you're going to fully extend the suspension, resulting in the clank. My vote would be straps to limit downward travel, and adjust the torsion bars for desired ride, ground clearance, etc. What shocks are you running? I'm sure you know the more you "pre-load", the more rebound damping you'll want.

[joemama]

Thanks AZ bug, you're right, no matter what, the lower stop will come into play, particularly offroad. Im not so much worried about it offroad. Currently it happens all the time, because Im up against the stop. I am running stock Bilstein shocks. On the front I have lifted spindles, so stock is fine. In the back, I raised the lower shock mount holes, to allow for 1/4" notch, and about 1/4" safety margin on the shocks. I can see where limit straps are probably the answer, but I think they need to be adjustable to compensate for future stretch. I would love to see what others have done with this.

[TDCTDI]

[joemama]

I have these short torsions, 26 mm x 21 3/4

I think they will fit, if I get the correct caps. Could get some adjustable spring plates, notch them to match what I did to my dual spring plates (1/4")
It sounds like this could be an option, although I think I would get a better lift (not confused with travel) with the atomwerks lift spindles.

[Double-Double]

Wish you were closer Id love to show you my setup better.
_________________
“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.”
—Matthew 16:24–25

[dirtkeeper]

I have SAW adjustable spring plates and torsions from ages ago . I notched them to match my travel Mine hit the stops more when the car is empty. Fully loaded the car rides best is how I set I for get what the preload was set at the adjusters are good for a final adjustment
I have about 3/4” notch Have type 2 empi 21 degree cv’s and a. SAW axle

[Double-Double]

[Matt Wilson]

Those shocks look like the reservoir version of the B46-0930 Bilstein 7100's. I run the non-reservoir version on my car with shaft extender for my added droop travel.

You shouldn't really be clacking against the bottom stops, if you have the spring plates notched or bottom stops modified properly AND have some suspension limits in place. No sense allowing your car to hammer itself apart. Limit straps are cheap and easy if you do much off-roading.

Short 21.75" 26mm bars would be pretty stiff and don't have a ton of available twist angle. Be careful you don't 'preload' too much. Every angle you preload will subtract from the total angle of available twist in the bar. From stop-to-stop, you might be at about 30degrees that the spring needs to twist, but that bar only has a total of about 28 degrees. If the bar stops twisting, other stuff will bend/break.

If you are going to clearance your plates, make sure the CV's and shocks can handle the extra reach at full droop.
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