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Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'?
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coolbugfan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:13 pm    Post subject: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Hi All,

It was suggested on another post on engine rebuilding that I use the chassis engine VIN checker here on thesamba to see my the car and engine matched.

Using the checker, my 1965 1200 has a manufacture date of October, 1964. The engine code puts the engine near the end of production for September, 1964.

Does that mean they are matching? The engine looks 'older' than the car by a few weeks.

Much thanks
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viiking
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Yes that is matching.That's not unusual in fact it would be totally normal that the body and engine are not made at the same time.

Engines would be manufactured before the body is assembled for the obvious reason. You'd need to have a pool of engines and other components pre-manufactured before assembly because once you run out of something important, then the production line stops!

Back in the day, all of the scheduling would have been done manually and with pen and paper (or stock cards) etc. These days with Just-in-time scheduling using computers they can get much closer.
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
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Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

It certainly shows that the engine was produced near in time to the car.

You have no way of knowing if it is the original engine however unless you send your chassis number and engine number to the VW Museum in Wolfsburg to have them check the production records. They can tell you, if you provide an engine number, if that engine number is the one that the car left the factory with.

In my book "numbers matching" means the engine is the original one that came with the car.

Right now you don't have anything solid, but the fact that your engine number matches production from right before your car was built, that's a good sign.
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coolbugfan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Thank you for the responses. Itís close enough to make me happy. It was clear that the transmission hadnít ever been out before so it all looks good.
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

If it's a couple weeks apart and the engine is the end of one month and the car is near the beginning of the next month then:
I would say Yes.

I have seen cars that are known to be matching cross the month-change boundary like that in the past.
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rcroane Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

If it helps, my '65 is a documented numbers matching car. VIN is 115196240 and engine is 9003779. The car build date was 10/15/64 and the engine number looks to be early October (last September engine was 8968669).
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viiking
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

My '68 Euro which has been in the family since new with original engine has an engine built in Mid January '68 and the VIN number third week of Feb 1968.

I think weeks even a month apart is not unusual.
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1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3
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leowagen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Now one question comes to my head:

Body and chassis numbers, are supposed to exactly match? can these two be closely apart as the authors question regarding engine and VIN number?

Nice rides and stay safe!
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

leowagen wrote:
Now one question comes to my head:

Body and chassis numbers, are supposed to exactly match? can these two be closely apart as the authors question regarding engine and VIN number?

Nice rides and stay safe!


Yes there is only one number and it is the chassis number. It is engraved on the pan under the rear seat and it is stamped on a plate affixed to the body. These are ALWAYS the same.

If it is different, there has been a body / pan swap at some point in the car's history.
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coolbugfan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Great info. Very Happy Thank you all for your help and input.
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leowagen
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
leowagen wrote:
Now one question comes to my head:

Body and chassis numbers, are supposed to exactly match? can these two be closely apart as the authors question regarding engine and VIN number?

Nice rides and stay safe!


Yes there is only one number and it is the chassis number. It is engraved on the pan under the rear seat and it is stamped on a plate affixed to the body. These are ALWAYS the same.

If it is different, there has been a body / pan swap at some point in the car's history.


I guess I didn't explain myself properly. Chassis engraved number in the tunnel, and riveted plate in front end must be the same, I totally agree on this. But, talking about early beetles with a stamped body number where brake fluid tank is, near to where the plate is riveted. This stamped body number must math the chassis number?
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viiking
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

You mean a number like this? These are common body numbers on cars. They will indicate maybe a coded date number on when the body was made but this number will NOT match the VIN or plate number. Mine is a spot welded plate. Earlier ones may be stamped.

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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3
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viiking
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

Here is another one for a locally Australian produced CKD body number. Hence the A.
I have seen somewhere here on SAMBA an explanation of the what the number means. I can't exactly remember but it had some sort of code of sequential number, day and week number. I think.

Edit: Of course I think the 114 is the model type. (RHD -Deluxe?).

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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my engine and car 'numbers matching'? Reply with quote

leowagen wrote:
[
I guess I didn't explain myself properly. Chassis engraved number in the tunnel, and riveted plate in front end must be the same, I totally agree on this. But, talking about early beetles with a stamped body number where brake fluid tank is, near to where the plate is riveted. This stamped body number must math the chassis number?


No that's a whole different thing Very Happy
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