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67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia
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will t
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Again at risk of over saturation here is the rest of the photo collection showing other spots needing repair, etc. Thanks @c21darrel. As for what's next there is a shop in a suburb of Denver where I live called The Metal Surgeon:

http://www.themetalsurgeon.com/

I have spoken with the owner, and as in anything, I could spend whatever I have doing every repair necessary fabricating body parts and installing them. I am also so inspired by Antoine:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713906&highlight=antoine

I bought arc and mig welding equipment and I am almost brave enough to go for it. First, though, I hope to go to work for the aforementioned metal working shop, and I also plan to take welding classes. Don't worry, I won't ruin the Ghia after having gotten this far. I'll let the experts either do it or guide me through it.

After metal, the car will go to the body shop and what I would like to do is have them take it all the way through primer, and then I want to bring it home and shoot the paint myself. I will probably prep and prime the hard-to-reach invisible places and the other non-essential places like the insides of the doors, etc. before sending it to body and primer. I will convert my garage to a booth for a couple of days and paint it with single-stage. We are thinking one-color or two-tone, and haven't really decided what. Latest choices are Neptune Blue body and eiter Bermuda Blue or Black top, and Castillian Yellow one-color or Castillian Yellow body and Black top. I would like to keep the interior color that it started with and I saved (pictures posted previously, light sand) and I'm not sure it would work with a two-tone Castillian & Black and Neptune & Black but I think it will work with Castillian one-color or Neptune Blue & Bermuda.

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@Peter D. what exactly are the dog legs on a Ghia? I am familiar with them on a Bus but not on a Ghia. Is it just behind the door? Also I think the battery tray is very repairable - am I wrong? it doesn't look all that bad to me. As for the rear quarters you are right, they are pretty toasted. A donor body would be ideal. I have a 69 but am not sure if I want to cut it up or restore it like this one. And perhaps those sections can be cut out and new ones fabricated? We'll see.

I neglected to look carefully at the vent control and that's why the car went to the blast with it still in. I am on the road right now but when I return I will look at it very carefully. I appreciate what you are saying and will keep it front of mind. Also see the new headlight piece you sent me, and also the floor pans from Volkstory you recommended.

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Last edited by will t on Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Ive seen Metal Surgeons work on a few busses, if you have the opportunity to learn from a master you are a lucky man.
The only part of a paint job i fear is laying down the paint. I have no problem doing the body work, prime and sand, sand, sand...but no way i feel confident on the final coat. It takes an artist, im just a weekend hack. I painted my Ghia in a garage (no booth set up, just open door garage)with a friend. He did the outside i did the underside. Happy with results. Good luck with the plan. Sounds well thought out.
Dog legs on a ghia are the curved piece where your front heat outlets are.
Parts car is nice to have, ...on rear lower corners i used a piece from a 60's Camaro from same location for my car, just needed a little massage first. Plus it is a piece that is re-popped and available you wouldnt need to scavenge from a decent 69.
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Peter D.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Yeah, the doglegs are the curved end of the heater channels by your feet.

These are the one's I bought from France because I'm insane:

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Your outer rocker skins look bad but hopefully you can save the inner.
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Exciting progress!
I read that you are taking care to make sure to rust treat all the inaccessible places especially rockers. That's a wise move even if they look good and corrosion free as mine did at the time.
Case in point;
My paint and bodywork was finished in 2006. The drivers side rocker started showing signs that rust was forming as the paint was just starting to bubble about 2015.
I decided to have the area repaired in 2017.
It's great you are being proactive so as to avoid this in your future
Paint bubble
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Rocker full of rust scale
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Completed repair
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will t
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Yes @kingkarmann I hope to to cut out all the rusted areas completely and weld in new steel. I believe I am seeing all of these areas clearly with the metal blasted.

@Peter D. thank you for the pictures. It's pretty clear to me now what dog legs are! I think mine are structurally sound but I am new to this and right now I am not near the car. You all know more what you're looking at - does anyone see anything of note in these images?

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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Quote:
does anyone see anything of note in these images?


Yes, it looks WAY TOO NICE for a 50 year old relic. Im not even seeing a need for pan replacement they look pretty good. They make the rear 1/2 pans, looks like all you may need.
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will t
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Quote:
does anyone see anything of note in these images?


Yes, it looks WAY TOO NICE for a 50 year old relic. Im not even seeing a need for pan replacement they look pretty good. They make the rear 1/2 pans, looks like all you may need.


That's very encouraging @c21darrel, and thank you, but while it may be that I could get away with half pans I bought new high-quality full ones fom Volkstory and will weld them in. At this point I feel fully committed and the more I find out about 67's the more excited I get about doing a good restoration on this car.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Captain Obvious here, KG's rust but it has been my observation that 67's seem to suffer a bit less from overall rust issues than other years. With the exception of the one that salt ate in Cleveland back in the 70's. Is it possible that the steel formula changed a bit?
And yes, what a nice looking floor pan!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

I would second only replacing the floors of the rear part of the pans.
All the exact pressings are not on the replacements, It takes a lot of work to get the perimeter bolt holes to exactly line up.
the repro seat rails are not as good and it is a lot of work to remove the old seat rails and weld them in beautifully.
whereas the rear pan bottoms are a pretty straight forward job.

In the last few weeks there have been some really good pix of an excellent rear pan replacement but I can't find the thread Sad
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will t
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Those are very good points, thank you @kingkarmann and @Ian Godfrey. I feel like I should use the full pans because I bought them and they were ridiculously expensive. And even though I was pretty confident I could make fit, I was not looking forward to the seat rails at all. They would definitely be more difficult. I purchased a plasma cutter for fitment and holes but it will always be useful for plenty of things.

I will look carefully at the front sections of the pans when I return the middle of April. I am out of town and all I have is the pictures, which I will look over in the mean time. But I think that is solid advice and it is duly noted.

I would love to see the recent thread of the rear replacement if anyone comes across it. I will look also.

Thanks!
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

will t wrote:
Those are very good points, thank you @kingkarmann and @Ian Godfrey. I feel like I should use the full pans because I bought them and they were ridiculously expensive. And even though I was pretty confident I could make fit, I was not looking forward to the seat rails at all. They would definitely be more difficult. I purchased a plasma cutter for fitment and holes but it will always be useful for plenty of things.

I will look carefully at the front sections of the pans when I return the middle of April. I am out of town and all I have is the pictures, which I will look over in the mean time. But I think that is solid advice and it is duly noted.

I would love to see the recent thread of the rear replacement if anyone comes across it. I will look also.

Thanks!


I bought the Volkstory pans as well. What I can tell you is that they fit in place with no trimming or massaging, and they look exactly like the originals, unlike the Dansk pans.
I get the argument about keeping original metal, but you're on the same bare-metal body-off path that I'm on. If there's any pockmarks or thinness to your floorpan fronts, might was well make it new while you have the opportunity. My floorpan front halves were intact enough that they could've been left alone, but they were pockmarked on the top, and I wanted clean fresh metal.

I bought the repro seat tracks from CIP1. They come with reinforcements that the originals didn't have, so you don't actually need the crossmember support piece. But if you want the crossmember, there was a Samba member who was making them last summer, which is where I got mine. Search through my old posts, I think I posted about it and no one seemed to show any interest.

Here are my volkstory pans installed with the repro seat tracks and crossmember, in primer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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will t
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Era Vulgaris wrote:
will t wrote:
Those are very good points, thank you @kingkarmann and @Ian Godfrey. I feel like I should use the full pans because I bought them and they were ridiculously expensive. And even though I was pretty confident I could make fit, I was not looking forward to the seat rails at all. They would definitely be more difficult. I purchased a plasma cutter for fitment and holes but it will always be useful for plenty of things.

I will look carefully at the front sections of the pans when I return the middle of April. I am out of town and all I have is the pictures, which I will look over in the mean time. But I think that is solid advice and it is duly noted.

I would love to see the recent thread of the rear replacement if anyone comes across it. I will look also.

Thanks!


I bought the Volkstory pans as well. What I can tell you is that they fit in place with no trimming or massaging, and they look exactly like the originals, unlike the Dansk pans.
I get the argument about keeping original metal, but you're on the same bare-metal body-off path that I'm on. If there's any pockmarks or thinness to your floorpan fronts, might was well make it new while you have the opportunity. My floorpan front halves were intact enough that they could've been left alone, but they were pockmarked on the top, and I wanted clean fresh metal.

I bought the repro seat tracks from CIP1. They come with reinforcements that the originals didn't have, so you don't actually need the crossmember support piece. But if you want the crossmember, there was a Samba member who was making them last summer, which is where I got mine. Search through my old posts, I think I posted about it and no one seemed to show any interest.

Here are my volkstory pans installed with the repro seat tracks and crossmember, in primer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thank you @Era Vulgaris. I looked through and found that seller and pm'd him, but it said the original ad was deleted so he may not be selling them any longer. I'll wait and see.

When I sent my chassis and body to the blast shop I didn't have them blast the pans because there was no point in spending the extra time (money) as I intend to replace the pans anyway. Had I thought they were salvageable either in part or in whole I would have had them blasted and taken stock at that point. I had already purchased the new pans however, and planned to use them.

@Peter D. recommended the Volkstory pans to me originally and said essentially the same thing as you, that they fit really well, that they are a very faithful copy of the original, and also made of good quality steel. Having received my set I can agree about the quality of the design and steel, and take both your words for the accuracy of the fit. In a way I am actually looking forward to replacing the pans in their entirety, including having to meet the challenge the seat rails present. I was thinking of purchasing an air chisel and attempting to remove my existing seat rails and using them. It will also be useful in cleaning the edges of the old pan from the lip on the transmission tunnel and so forth (this I learned from watching various youtube videos of course, not from personal experience). My seat rails look and feel like they are in good shape. I will pay great attention to their exact location, though I may set them back 2-4 cm because I am 6-1. But wouldn't it be nice if someone sold ready-to-install high-quality repro seat rails for each model iteration? Your chassis looks beautiful btw.
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

will t wrote:

My seat rails look and feel like they are in good shape. I will pay great attention to their exact location, though I may set them back 2-4 cm because I am 6-1. But wouldn't it be nice if someone sold ready-to-install high-quality repro seat rails for each model iteration? Your chassis looks beautiful btw.


Thanks!

BTW, do you see the two little stop tabs sticking out of the side of my inner seat rail? These are the stop tabs that set the furthest rearward position of the seat. Take a look at where they are on yours (2nd "flat area" from front) vs mine (3rd "flat area" from front). They're further back on the repro rails, so that you can slide the seat further back while keep the rails in the same place. I'm 6'1" also so that was a consideration for me as well. Yours definitely look to be in good shape, so you might just be able to move the placement of those stop tabs so that you can keep everything else in the factory placement. On the repro rails, those tabs were a separate loose piece that gets spot welded to the rail
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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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will t
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Era Vulgaris wrote:
will t wrote:

My seat rails look and feel like they are in good shape. I will pay great attention to their exact location, though I may set them back 2-4 cm because I am 6-1. But wouldn't it be nice if someone sold ready-to-install high-quality repro seat rails for each model iteration? Your chassis looks beautiful btw.


Thanks!

BTW, do you see the two little stop tabs sticking out of the side of my inner seat rail? These are the stop tabs that set the furthest rearward position of the seat. Take a look at where they are on yours (2nd "flat area" from front) vs mine (3rd "flat area" from front). They're further back on the repro rails, so that you can slide the seat further back while keep the rails in the same place. I'm 6'1" also so that was a consideration for me as well. Yours definitely look to be in good shape, so you might just be able to move the placement of those stop tabs so that you can keep everything else in the factory placement. On the repro rails, those tabs were a separate loose piece that gets spot welded to the rail


I do see! Again, duly noted! Thanks
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will t
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

@Era Vulgaris on a different note, could you tell about the steering kit you have shown in the photo? I have cropped the original photo for clarity. Thanks

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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

will t wrote:
@Era Vulgaris on a different note, could you tell about the steering kit you have shown in the photo?


It's from Kerscher Tuning in Germany. It's 99% bolt on. The only welding you have to do is on the steering column. The column gets shortened, and there's an adapter for the steering u-joint that gets welded to the column.

Before I bought this Ghia I had owned and sold two Ghias and two 914s, and I was trying to decide whether I wanted another Ghia or 914. I told myself that the only way I'd ever buy another Ghia was if I found a good rack and pinion conversion kit for it. The stock VW steering is absolute garbage, and was always my least favorite aspect of the car. Some folks make excuses for it, that it's early 1900's tech, and yeah, it is. Which is why it sucks! It's 2021 and I have no patience for steering with dead spots and an allowable amount of play in it.

I came across this kit, after initially trying one from someone else that didn't fit well. The Kerscher Tuning kit fit perfectly right out of the box, and the folks I emailed with were super nice, and spoke great English if you don't speak German and have any questions.

https://www.kerscher-tuning.de/kaefer/index.php?gruppe1=Lenkung&gruppe2=Lenkung
There's two different kits, one for link pin beams and one for ball joint beams.

I'm also doing a 4-wheel disc brake conversion, for the same reason. Drums suck!
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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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will t
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Restoration - not my first VW but it is my first Ghia Reply with quote

Era Vulgaris wrote:
will t wrote:
@Era Vulgaris on a different note, could you tell about the steering kit you have shown in the photo?


It's from Kerscher Tuning in Germany. It's 99% bolt on. The only welding you have to do is on the steering column. The column gets shortened, and there's an adapter for the steering u-joint that gets welded to the column.

Before I bought this Ghia I had owned and sold two Ghias and two 914s, and I was trying to decide whether I wanted another Ghia or 914. I told myself that the only way I'd ever buy another Ghia was if I found a good rack and pinion conversion kit for it. The stock VW steering is absolute garbage, and was always my least favorite aspect of the car. Some folks make excuses for it, that it's early 1900's tech, and yeah, it is. Which is why it sucks! It's 2021 and I have no patience for steering with dead spots and an allowable amount of play in it.

I came across this kit, after initially trying one from someone else that didn't fit well. The Kerscher Tuning kit fit perfectly right out of the box, and the folks I emailed with were super nice, and spoke great English if you don't speak German and have any questions.

https://www.kerscher-tuning.de/kaefer/index.php?gruppe1=Lenkung&gruppe2=Lenkung
There's two different kits, one for link pin beams and one for ball joint beams.

I'm also doing a 4-wheel disc brake conversion, for the same reason. Drums suck!


That's good stuff, thanks
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