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Is This Really Happening In Europe?
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

these conversations always remind me of a 80's Lee Majors and Ernest Borgnine film
The Last Chase

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Chase
Quote:
The Last Chase is a 1981 Canadian-American dystopian science fiction film directed by Martyn Burke who was also the producer on the film, produced for Argosy Films. The film stars Lee Majors, Burgess Meredith and Chris Makepeace in a futuristic scenario about a former racing driver who reassembles his old Porsche and drives to California in a world where cars and motor vehicles of all kinds have been outlawed by the powers that be

Plot
In the year 2011, the United States is a police state. A substantial percentage of the population was wiped out by a devastating viral pandemic 20 years earlier. Amidst the resulting chaos and general panic, democracy collapsed and a totalitarian cabal seized power. After moving the seat of government to Boston, the new dictatorship outlawed ownership and use of all automobiles, boats and aircraft, on the pretext (later proven false) that an even bigger crisis, the exhaustion of fossil fuel supplies, was imminent. The loss of other personal freedoms followed, and surveillance cameras now monitor private citizens' every move.

In Boston, Franklyn Hart (Lee Majors), a former race car driver who lost his family to the plague, is a spokesman for the mass transit system. Publicly, he deplores the selfishness of private vehicle ownership and exalts the virtues of public transportation; privately, he is barely able to contain his contempt for the oppressive, autocratic bureaucracy and the dismal party line that he is compelled to promote.

Years before, as private vehicles were being confiscated, Hart sequestered his race car – an orange Porsche 917 CAN-AM roadster – in a secret compartment beneath his basement. Over the ensuing years he has gradually restored it to drivable condition, raiding long-abandoned junkyards in the dead of night for parts. His goal is to drive across the country to "Free California", an independent territory that has broken away from the rest of totalitarian America. Young electronics whiz Ring McCarthy (Chris Makepeace) deduces Hart's plan, and Hart reluctantly agrees to bring him along on his perilous journey.

The ubiquitous surveillance system catches Hart vaulting a junkyard fence; Hart and McCarthy flee Boston in the roadster as police close in. Although gasoline has not been sold for 20 years, Hart has access to a virtually inexhaustible supply, the residual fuel remaining at the bottom of subterranean storage tanks in every abandoned gas station in the country. He uses a portable hand pump to refuel from these tanks as necessary.

News of the duo's daring adventure spreads across the country. The government, represented by a Gestapo-like figure named Hawkins (George Touliatos) watches with growing concern as the public takes notice and cheers Hart's defiance of authority. Calls for a return to personal autonomy and democracy are heard, for the first time in two decades. Hart must be stopped; but ground pursuit is impossible, as the electric golf carts used by the police are incapable of chasing down a race car.

Hawkins orders J.G. Williams (Burgess Meredith), a retired Air Force pilot, to track down and destroy Hart and his car in a Korean War-vintage F-86 Sabre. He locates and strafes the car, wounding Hart. A community of armed rebels takes Hart and McCarthy in, hides the car, and treats Hart's wounds. A team of mercenaries soon locates and attacks the enclave, although Hart and McCarthy escape during the firefight.

Back on the open road, Williams once again has the roadster in his crosshairs; but now he is having second thoughts. As an old rebel himself, he is starting to identify with Hart's situation. Prodded by Hawkins, Williams initiates several more confrontations, but each time he backs off, to Hart's and McCarthy's bewilderment. McCarthy rigs a radio receiver and listens in on Williams's cockpit radio communications, then establishes a dialog with him using Morse code via a hand-held spotlight. Eventually Williams confides that he is sympathetic to their cause.

But Hawkins is also monitoring Williams's radio communications, and after learning of his change of heart, orders the activation of a Cold War-era laser cannon at a position ahead of Hart's route. Williams attempts to warn Hart, but his radio communications have been jammed. Williams releases his external fuel tanks ahead of the car, hoping the inferno will stop the car short of the cannon's range; but Hart, assuming Williams has changed allegiances yet again, drives on.

Williams strafes the laser, but cannot pierce its heavy armor; so he sacrifices himself in a kamikaze-style attack, destroying his jet and the laser installation. His sacrifice allows Hart and McCarthy to drive on toward California where they are welcomed as heroes.



Link


Never officially released on DVD
part#1

Link

the action starts in the 2nd half

Link

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nicholastanguma
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

[quote="danfromsyr"]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Chase
Quote:
The Last Chase is a 1981 Canadian-American dystopian science fiction film directed by Martyn Burke who was also the producer on the film, produced for Argosy Films. The film stars Lee Majors, Burgess Meredith and Chris Makepeace in a futuristic scenario about a former racing driver who reassembles his old Porsche and drives to California in a world where cars and motor vehicles of all kinds have been outlawed by the powers that be

Plot
In the year 2011, the United States is a police state. A substantial percentage of the population was wiped out by a devastating viral pandemic 20 years earlier. Amidst the resulting chaos and general panic, democracy collapsed and a totalitarian cabal seized power. After moving the seat of government to Boston, the new dictatorship outlawed ownership and use of all automobiles, boats and aircraft, on the pretext (later proven false) that an even bigger crisis, the exhaustion of fossil fuel supplies, was imminent. The loss of other personal freedoms followed, and surveillance cameras now monitor private citizens' every move.

In Boston, Franklyn Hart (Lee Majors), a former race car driver who lost his family to the plague, is a spokesman for the mass transit system. Publicly, he deplores the selfishness of private vehicle ownership and exalts the virtues of public transportation; privately, he is barely able to contain his contempt for the oppressive, autocratic bureaucracy and the dismal party line that he is compelled to promote.

Years before, as private vehicles were being confiscated, Hart sequestered his race car – an orange Porsche 917 CAN-AM roadster – in a secret compartment beneath his basement. Over the ensuing years he has gradually restored it to drivable condition, raiding long-abandoned junkyards in the dead of night for parts. His goal is to drive across the country to "Free California", an independent territory that has broken away from the rest of totalitarian America. Young electronics whiz Ring McCarthy (Chris Makepeace) deduces Hart's plan, and Hart reluctantly agrees to bring him along on his perilous journey.

The ubiquitous surveillance system catches Hart vaulting a junkyard fence; Hart and McCarthy flee Boston in the roadster as police close in. Although gasoline has not been sold for 20 years, Hart has access to a virtually inexhaustible supply, the residual fuel remaining at the bottom of subterranean storage tanks in every abandoned gas station in the country. He uses a portable hand pump to refuel from these tanks as necessary.

News of the duo's daring adventure spreads across the country. The government, represented by a Gestapo-like figure named Hawkins (George Touliatos) watches with growing concern as the public takes notice and cheers Hart's defiance of authority. Calls for a return to personal autonomy and democracy are heard, for the first time in two decades. Hart must be stopped; but ground pursuit is impossible, as the electric golf carts used by the police are incapable of chasing down a race car.



Typical of everything 80s cinema this is utterly laughably ridiculous...yet today it's not quite as stupid, is it? Life is so weird, these times we're living in are so freakin weird. Confused
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

My prediction about the future will be fear mongering about all the used electric car battery pollution. Battery waste breaking down and leaking into the ground water etc. Auto companies will be talking about a new kind of engine that burns things in a combustion chamber.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

typ914 wrote:
My prediction about the future will be fear mongering about all the used electric car battery pollution. Battery waste breaking down and leaking into the ground water etc. Auto companies will be talking about a new kind of engine that burns things in a combustion chamber.



Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Manfred58sc wrote:
I have always known that driving is nothing more than a privilege provided by the state.


Not all would agree with this position. While the state has the ability to regulate many aspects of our lives, including our transportation choices, the free movement on public land is a right, not a privilege. The argument is over the point regulation becomes prohibition, and the latter is not the state's right to make.


Sorry, but to paraphrase the late, great, George Carlin, none of us have "rights." They are all privileges, to be taken away whenever our "government" wants or can.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Jon Schmid wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Manfred58sc wrote:
I have always known that driving is nothing more than a privilege provided by the state.


Not all would agree with this position. While the state has the ability to regulate many aspects of our lives, including our transportation choices, the free movement on public land is a right, not a privilege. The argument is over the point regulation becomes prohibition, and the latter is not the state's right to make.


Sorry, but to paraphrase the late, great, George Carlin, none of us have "rights." They are all privileges, to be taken away whenever our "government" wants or can.


Only if we let them!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

It’s great because now we can buy cheap vintage cars from Belgium

Last I checked m Belgium wasn’t all of EU.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

I'm sure Poland is not going to crack down on any car owner for a very long time. Also the EU is showing some serious strain since Brexit so blanket implementation will be difficult. Same goes for Wyoming. The real issue is in densely populated areas that tend to have various instruments of enforcement already in place. The trends are clear and have had momentum for sometime. The most celebrated future city planning is not auto centric , more "stack and pack", 15 minute rule, high tech focus.

Not sure what "we" can do about that. I have been part of City Planning and its not about public input 95% of the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Jon Schmid wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Manfred58sc wrote:
I have always known that driving is nothing more than a privilege provided by the state.


Not all would agree with this position. While the state has the ability to regulate many aspects of our lives, including our transportation choices, the free movement on public land is a right, not a privilege. The argument is over the point regulation becomes prohibition, and the latter is not the state's right to make.


Sorry, but to paraphrase the late, great, George Carlin, none of us have "rights." They are all privileges, to be taken away whenever our "government" wants or can.


Only if we let them!


Ever heard of martial law? Even Honest Abe suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War. So anything is possible, given the wrong circumstances.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Jon Schmid wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Jon Schmid wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Manfred58sc wrote:
I have always known that driving is nothing more than a privilege provided by the state.


Not all would agree with this position. While the state has the ability to regulate many aspects of our lives, including our transportation choices, the free movement on public land is a right, not a privilege. The argument is over the point regulation becomes prohibition, and the latter is not the state's right to make.


Sorry, but to paraphrase the late, great, George Carlin, none of us have "rights." They are all privileges, to be taken away whenever our "government" wants or can.


Only if we let them!


Ever heard of martial law? Even Honest Abe suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War. So anything is possible, given the wrong circumstances.


More recently, the terrorist attack of October 26, 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
It’s great because now we can buy cheap vintage cars from Belgium

Last I checked m Belgium wasn’t all of EU.


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Applause
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nicholastanguma
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Manfred58sc wrote:
I'm sure Poland is not going to crack down on any car owner for a very long time. Also the EU is showing some serious strain since Brexit so blanket implementation will be difficult. Same goes for Wyoming. The real issue is in densely populated areas that tend to have various instruments of enforcement already in place.



I think you are correct. Multiple sources living in different European countries have verified as much to me. This EU law was just passed at the end of 2020, and is in its roll-out stage of implementation right now.

This law specifically applies to that European classification of vehicle known as "Old Timer." The new law mandates that for anyone to register either his automobile or motorcycle as an Old Timer the vehicle may only be factory spec per the year it was manufactured.

I have been told there is still some wiggle room allowed in this Old Timer section of law in some of the EU countries where vintage auto and moto lobbies have enough weight to negotiate with the government. In Germany for instance, where the infamously strict TUV has been in place for decades, there is a huge vintage motorsport community with some government clout, so if one knows how to properly navigate TUV then this new EU-wide law isn't the end of all modification culture.

Similar situations exist in other countries, as well, so for example Poland's healthy vintage racing culture will likely survive, especially as Poland is well known for defying EU mandates whenever Poland deems the EU Parliament has overstepped its bounds. Italy also has had certain very strict modification laws in place for years and years, but I've been told that one can make any mods one wants to one's vehicle in between the times of official technical inspection, although if the carabinieri need to fill a monthly quota then modded vehicles suddenly become a target even before official technical inspection. Surprisingly, a Swedish enthusiast has informed me his country's vintage and custom vehicle laws are relatively easy to navigate despite his govt's famous hatred for all things That Make Mother Gaia Cry.

Other countries have no wiggle room whatsoever, even surprisingly Hungary, which in the past decade has become famous for its clashes with EU Parliament when the Hungarian govt feels trod upon. One would think Hungary would be a wonderfully unrestricted place for vehicle modification based upon its habit of regularly giving EU Parliament the finger, but alas, a Hungarian enthusiast on ADVrider tells me the complete opposite is true! He says it's common among Hungarian moto riders to deride their country as "Absurdistan" for its inexplicably hard stance against modified vehicle culture. A Portugese rider tells me his country is warning all moto enthusiasts that there will be stricter new technical inspections now, but as of yet hasn't yet gotten around to actually doing anything, so it's kind of like the sword of Damocles for them at the moment, especially as apparently the Portugese govt has been threatening moto riders with such strictness since something like 2016 or 17.

Basically, EU Parliament is most certainly an oligarchy of self righteous bureaucrats, but individual countries still have some leeway in exactly how they will implement the minutae of EU mandates after the collective royal scepter has been waved across the land; it pretty much comes down to how strong an individual country's recreational vehicle lobby is. Belgium, I'm told, has an Old Timer lobby, but it's very weak, thus Belgium's adoption of the zero tolerance stance.

For the record: most of my overseas contacts in the vintage and modification culture are found on the ADVrider forum, the Royal Enfield forum, and the Vintage Engine Tech subforum of the Speed Talk forum. The remaining contacts are found on the Modification subforum of the Expedition Portal forum, and here on the Samba.

If you'd like to read through what I consider to be the most informative firsthand accounts of Europeans currently dealing with the implementation of this new EU law: https://advrider.com/f/threads/is-this-really-happening-in-europe.1498140/


Also for the record: why would anyone in the EU want to register their vehicles as Old Timers?

1) In some countries the annual insurance, taxation, and registration costs are a bit lower.

2) In some countries the restrictions against modifications have historically been fewer.


In some places the insurance, taxes, and registration were actually more expensive than for regular vehicles, nonetheless the modification restrictions were still fewer, and clearly for anyone in the modding and racing culture this would still be worthwhile.
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Lind
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

does anyone know how the laws in European countries are for cars that are registered in a different country in the EU or outside the EU altogether?

I.E. if your vehicle is registered and legal in NL (or the USA), but you are driving it in Belgium, what will the Belgian police do if you get pulled over?



Idaho, where I live has no annual vehicle inspections, although technically the police could do an inspection on your vehicle during a traffic stop if they saw something amiss. I see cars and trucks being driven around with all the doors removed, home-made roadsters (by simply cutting the roof off), and many other things that I know would never pass any inspection. As someone who drives on the road, I am all for annual strict safety inspections. I am also good with modified cars as long as they are safe and effective.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Lind wrote:

I.E. if your vehicle is registered and legal in NL (or the USA), but you are driving it in Belgium, what will the Belgian police do if you get pulled over?



Cite you for your bad behavior such as speeding, failure to yield, running down old ladies at the crosswalk, but your vehicle's lack of compliance with EU law won't come into the mix.


Lind wrote:
does anyone know how the laws in European countries are for cars that are registered in a different country in the EU or outside the EU altogether?


In most cases vehicles that are outrageously in violation of EU compliance wouldn't even have made it into the country or region in the first place. For instance, if you ship your lifted Jeep on 40 inch tall mud terrains and tube fenders from Idaho to anywhere in Europe, even Eastern Europe, the customs officials won't even let you get the vehicle out of the customs warehouse and onto public roads.

Small violations, such as shipping your hardtail chopper without a front fender, will usually be waved through without incident. However, if your chopper is raked out ten feet long it's much more likely to be kept off public roads like the Jeep.

I highly suspect if you drive your ancient, poorly maintained, Russian registered, two stroke clunker Lada or Trabant into the EU and get pulled over the police issued citation would still not include anything about the shocking state of your jalopy, assuming the police offer was sure you weren't going to be keeping said jalopy on EU soil for an extended period of time.

However, if the shocking state of said jalopy was actually THE reason you were pulled over, that is, the vehicle was literally in danger of causing some kind of road accident, then I'm guessing the vehicle is much more likely to be impounded. I'm also guessing this same thinking would apply to your US registered Jeep on 40 inch mud terrains that had been shipped into Russia and then driven all the way to the EU.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

Europe has so much vintage racing history and culture, my concern was that this stuff was going to be axed in one fell swoop. But now it seems this glorious stuff will survive in most countries.



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

On the bright side, at least all of us gear heads in the states will be able to shoot our brains out when our right to wrench is taken away?

Can't you European dudes figure out how to make some deep fake owners manuals showing sepia toned fuel injection systems, turbochargers, disc brakes, etc? I've always thought that I could basically tell Joe Schmo police officer everything on my car is totally original and zhe won't know the difference because zhe is still a pimply faced 20 something year old? I dunno, I feel like most cops don't really care that much, but maybe that's a purely (white) American experience?

time is running out dudes, better get back to the garage (or streets).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
zhe



Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

For a car to qualify as an oldtimer in Germany it must be period correct. Oldtimer status comes with +s and -s. But you can modify a vehicle and register it as a regular vehicle as long as the mods are notified and documented and pass inspection (can be costly). You can even build a one off vehicle but to get it through inspection and insurance could cost a lot. A car must pass roadworthiness tests to get on the road.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
On the bright side, at least all of us gear heads in the states will be able to shoot our brains out when our right to wrench is taken away?

Can't you European dudes figure out how to make some deep fake owners manuals showing sepia toned fuel injection systems, turbochargers, disc brakes, etc? I've always thought that I could basically tell Joe Schmo police officer everything on my car is totally original and zhe won't know the difference because zhe is still a pimply faced 20 something year old? I dunno, I feel like most cops don't really care that much, but maybe that's a purely (white) American experience?

time is running out dudes, better get back to the garage (or streets).


Officers look for the obvious, modified exhaust, tail lights and such. Heck, no one know or cares about dropped spindles or shortened beams.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Is This Really Happening In Europe? Reply with quote

From Ireland. 🙄

With private cars to blame for a large portion of Ireland's emissions, the OECD suggests measures including increasing the cost of petrol and diesel cars and using the planning system to cut reliance on private cars, to help Ireland meet energy goals.
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